Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
T
TORSVT6 Offline OP
CEG\'er
OP Offline
CEG\'er
T
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
lets try this again,

i posted before but it didnt work.

Car:
1999 Contour SVT 60,000 miles

Problem:
rear right brake vibrates with every rotation of wheel, IE. the frequency of vibration changes as speed changes (faster for higher speeds slower for lower speeds)

Observations:
feel a vibration and hear a holow metalic thud coming from rear right rotor.
brakes (both rears) were chanegd with good rotors and pads, all brand new.
rotors are NOT warped, no vibration felt in pedal, and also i use a tool called an indicator with a magnetic stand. it showed less than 1/1000 of an inch difference as the rotor turned.. WELL BELOW TOLERANCES I also miked the rotors thickness to tell if the back of the rotor was varying at all... all results were identicle. these are perfect condition rotors.

so far my attampts at solutions:
removed brakes completely, replaced all components and made sure they were seated properly. everything checked out. put everything back to normal, and added the shims that came with the pads this time. still no luck.
also i remember there beeing small retaining washers on the studs holding teh rotors in place before which i had to destroy in the process of removing the old rotors. i believe these clips were only used for assembly process as to keep the rotor on the car before the wheels could be installed to hold them in place.

has ANYONE ever had this problem? and if so what did you do to remedy it?
any help or sugestions would be greatly appreciated.
if you require any questions or discriptions beyond whats in here please just ask. thanks in advance
Andy


Last edited by TORSVT6; 09/20/05 04:09 PM.

Daily Driver 99 SVT with only 60,000 miles (updated on sept 20th) whats behind garage door #2?
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 67
N
CEG\'er
Offline
CEG\'er
N
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 67
the only 1 things that comes to my mind, you need to have your tires balanced, if you just had them done, they either did it wrong or a wheel weight fell off


00 Contour SVT Black #557 of 2150 Fabricated Nov 24 1999 Currently unmoded
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,106
Y
Addicted CEG\'er
Offline
Addicted CEG\'er
Y
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,106
How about your calipers? Could one of the pins be sticking? I would think that'd cause some irregular pad/rotor wear, but it's a thought.

Mark


2000 Black CSVT 3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
T
TORSVT6 Offline OP
CEG\'er
OP Offline
CEG\'er
T
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
Yes i was going to get that checked. BUT the problem only exists under breaking and breaking under load (can not duplicate with spinning tires off the ground and stepping on teh brakes).

i DID notice that my Caliper boot was a little torn, NOT leaking any fluid but just worn and when i went to screw them back into place (this was new for me usually had to use a clamp of some sort)it looked like it was binding up a little on the piston.

that is the only other thing i can think of at the moment.
I did however notice that my lugs were not all the way tight this morning. i wonder if my lugs were bent. but i tightened them down this morning and they didnt seem to be cross threading so i dont think they got stretched.
but this is a possibility i will check into.

does anyone remember what teh torxs bolts needed to be torqued to? and what size they should have been? i have seen a few people on teh forum who said it was a T-50 but im positive mine was a T-45. i checked that 3 times before even trying to remove them. thanks again you guys for all the help.

Andy



Daily Driver 99 SVT with only 60,000 miles (updated on sept 20th) whats behind garage door #2?
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,016
E
Hard-core CEG\'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG\'er
E
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,016
Even with all that explanation, I really think it's a balancing issue... or possibly even a bent rim (although I'd think that to be somewhat unlikely). Try switching wheels, front to back, back to front, just to see if the vibration stays at that back wheel. If this is the case, I'd probably take the caliper back off, and clean everything well. I'm not sure if there are bearings in the rear hub assembly (i'd like to assume so... but we all know where that can take us), and if a bearing is going bad and allows a bit of a wobble, it's another possibility.

Hope something I said helps ya out

~Eric


2000 CSVT Silver Frost: #942 of 2150 HID Projectors and Fog Light Mod, Optomized TB, MSDS headers 2003 Silverstone Z
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
B
Hard-core CEG'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG'er
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Sticking or frozen caliper slide pins can also cause this.


Jim Johnson 98 SVT 03 Escape Limited
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
T
TORSVT6 Offline OP
CEG\'er
OP Offline
CEG\'er
T
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
OK,

THANKS to all that looked and replied, i spoke with a friend that works at bosch, hes a fellow mechanical engineer there designing brake parts mostly brake stuff.

the conversation went a little like this;

Darrick: hmmm a vibration huh?
Me: yup but not the same feeling as a warped rotor.

Darrick: ahhhh i am 99% sure i know what yoru problem is. Did the rotor come with a ground blanch on it?
Me: WTF is a groun blanch?

Darrick: its teh machined process that puts that nice cross patter in the rotor before they sell them.
Me: let me think about this i think they looked like they were just turned i dont remember the nice cross hatching pattern that came on the rotors from brembro for teh VR4.

Darrick: Yeah thats your problem. whats happenening is the pads being brand new will ride in the groves that go along the rotor in the direction of rotation, and the rotor will pull teh pads into the grooves not allowing the m to come out when your brake senses overload it will loosen up causing the pads to "HOP" out of the groove. this is the thunking sound yoru getting at the same frequency that your driving. Ie slower at slow speeds and faster at higher speeds.
Me: hmmmm that seems logical... how can i fix it?

Darrick: haha yeah it will either fix itself by wearing down to match the surface of the rotor, OR you will be buying new rotors... lol but i wouldnt count on the first one


so the long story short here is that the machining process on brake components is KEY. i did all the sugestions with pins and wheels and balanceing before i asked my friend Darrick about this... my solution is to remove the rotors bring it up to a machine shop that does rotor turning and have them put that "ground blanch" into the rotor after they turn it and see if that helps... i will hopefuly be able to keep you guys pposted about it by the end of teh week. i wont have time to get the rotors taken off today or tomorrow but friday after work i will GET R' DUN!

thanks again
Andy


Daily Driver 99 SVT with only 60,000 miles (updated on sept 20th) whats behind garage door #2?
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
T
I have no life
Offline
I have no life
T
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
Why are you the only one having this issue though?


-'96 SE MTX 3L -'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535 -'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride -Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
T
TORSVT6 Offline OP
CEG\'er
OP Offline
CEG\'er
T
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
Originally posted by todras:
Why are you the only one having this issue though?




Probably because I thought i was getting the better rotors and i was sold the cheapo 25$ Napa brand rotors...

i have no idea why anyone else has not had this problem, but i was told this is a common problem that people mistake as warped rotors. this is all i know.

any other idea please let me know.
thanks guys



Daily Driver 99 SVT with only 60,000 miles (updated on sept 20th) whats behind garage door #2?
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
B
Hard-core CEG'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG'er
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Originally posted by TORSVT6:
OK,

THANKS to all that looked and replied, i spoke with a friend that works at bosch, hes a fellow mechanical engineer there designing brake parts mostly brake stuff.

the conversation went a little like this;

Darrick: hmmm a vibration huh?
Me: yup but not the same feeling as a warped rotor.

Darrick: ahhhh i am 99% sure i know what yoru problem is. Did the rotor come with a ground blanch on it?
Me: WTF is a groun blanch?

Darrick: its teh machined process that puts that nice cross patter in the rotor before they sell them.
Me: let me think about this i think they looked like they were just turned i dont remember the nice cross hatching pattern that came on the rotors from brembro for teh VR4.

Darrick: Yeah thats your problem. whats happenening is the pads being brand new will ride in the groves that go along the rotor in the direction of rotation, and the rotor will pull teh pads into the grooves not allowing the m to come out when your brake senses overload it will loosen up causing the pads to "HOP" out of the groove. this is the thunking sound yoru getting at the same frequency that your driving. Ie slower at slow speeds and faster at higher speeds.
Me: hmmmm that seems logical... how can i fix it?

Darrick: haha yeah it will either fix itself by wearing down to match the surface of the rotor, OR you will be buying new rotors... lol but i wouldnt count on the first one


so the long story short here is that the machining process on brake components is KEY. i did all the sugestions with pins and wheels and balanceing before i asked my friend Darrick about this... my solution is to remove the rotors bring it up to a machine shop that does rotor turning and have them put that "ground blanch" into the rotor after they turn it and see if that helps... i will hopefuly be able to keep you guys pposted about it by the end of teh week. i wont have time to get the rotors taken off today or tomorrow but friday after work i will GET R' DUN!

thanks again
Andy




He is describing "threaded rotors" that are machined so course that the pads lift while braking and cause chatter. Although I have seen some sloppy machine work by less than compitent mechanics, I have never seen new rotors with the machining so agressive that it could cause this.

If you are concerned that this could be a problem, take a sanding disc to the rotors and scuff them up enough that most of the machine marks are removed. I think it is a waste of time.

I would keep looking.


Jim Johnson 98 SVT 03 Escape Limited

Moderated by  horseydug_dup1, Ray_dup1 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5