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Originally posted by BP:
when did they issue the warning to NO that they would be taking a direct hit? was it enough in advance for FEMA or locals to plan and execute evacuation of the areas expected to be hit?
They didn't because N.O. didn't take a direct hit. They did say it was tracking in the direction of N.O. and to GET out of the way.
Take a gander at www.noaa.gov and browse around. Check for the hurricane alerts that preceeded Katria's arrival and educate yourself.
Originally posted by BP:
obviously in a disaster of this scale the local governemnts are overwhelmed and unable to provide the resources necessary. that's why they're declared disaster areas so the FED can provide the help where needed. was that handled properly? NO! and as i've said before no level of gov can escape blame for this.
You get the "Tangent Man" award of the day. Congrats...
...Now, AGAIN, I'm not saying that the Fed did a good job; they didn't. It was lousy from day one and an embarassment. The key here is that if the state and local govts. were better prepared (Hell, prepared at ALL), then FEMA wouldn't have fumbled so hard (then again, with Brown heading up things, who knows?).
Originally posted by BP:
it is well known that there is no way NO could have prepared for this large of a disaster with the warning they had. even if they had gotten everyone out of the city there was nothing the local or state gov could have done about the levies.
I could give a crap about the levies; it's lives I'm concerned about. Any city that sits between 3 bodies of water, partially under sea-level and RIGHT in the middle of what could be considered "Hurricane Alley" AND only protected by levees that were built to withstand Cat 3 weather FUNDAMENTALLY needs a practiced, thought-out and cohesive evacuation plan.
Build 'em to withstand a Cat5; Mother Nature will one day throw something at the levees that they can't handle and AGAIN, it will be up to a well-oiled and developed evacuation plan to save lives...
Originally posted by BP:
and what's wrong with that? what's wrong with him wanting the information to pass through him, as it is now?
Well, that of course begs the question of how long his office is going to sit on the information, doesn't it?
Originally posted by BP:
lol! the irony. same thing i was saying about bush. and since you want so bad to turn this into a race issue, i bet if bush was black or latino people like you would have impeached him for iraq fiasco. yeah i said it!
Just do one thing for me; count how many times you've made racial accusations or overtones and how many times I have in this thread.
Nagin being black and my despise for his incompetence have nothing to do with each other; much like my admiration for Powell or Rice and their skin-color have nothing to do with each other.
Finally, what does it say about me applauding Clinton almost getting impeached? Am I a "race-traitor" now?
JaTo
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Originally posted by BP:
my whole point is that it's easy to monday morning qb this issue and isolate blame as you're doing now.
What a hypocrite! You do the same thing about the Iraq war! Give me a break BP!
- Tim
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Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by JaTo:
...just like I did Michael Brown. Despite his name, he's most assuredly "white as bread" so feel free to shove the racial connection up your posterior where it belongs.
i didn't bring race into this discussion so don't get mad and all posterior like on me. my whole point is that it's easy to monday morning qb this issue and isolate blame as you're doing now. answer me this: if everyone had done their job perfectly with the exception of nagin would NOLA be in the situation it is now?
The situation it's in now? Yeah, most likely...which is, practically empty and controlled by the authorities (although ideally it'd be New Orleans police, not US Army doing the patrols). But if everything had gone right and to the prescribed plan (I do believe that there was a plan in place, it just wasn't executed), then you wouldn't have had the however many thousands of displaced people essentially trapped at the Superdome and Convention Center because they weren't evacuated from the city before the hurricane hit, not to mention the roaming gangs and random dead bodies.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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Originally posted by BP:
i didn't bring race into this discussion so don't get mad and all posterior like on me. my whole point is that it's easy to monday morning qb this issue and isolate blame as you're doing now. answer me this: if everyone had done their job perfectly with the exception of nagin would NOLA be in the situation it is now?
Didn't bring race into the discussion? REALLY?
Then what in the Hell is this:
JaTo
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Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
answer me this: if everyone had done their job perfectly with the exception of nagin would NOLA be in the situation it is now?
Absolutely.
if everyone including the head honcho widely criticized FEMA for its failure to respond quickly enough to, and for its poor handling of this disaster then how can you say we'd be in the exact same position had they been prepared and responded appropriately? 
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Didn't bring race into the discussion? REALLY?
Then what in the Hell is this:
go back and check. actually i was not the first person to bring race into this thread. i responded to someone who did.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
What a hypocrite! You do the same thing about the Iraq war! Give me a break BP!
how so? i was saying it was a mistake to go into iraq even before troops were deployed! back when bush was committed to letting the inspectors finish their job. i've been steady since day one, so no hypocrisy on my side.
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Originally posted by BP:
go back and check. actually i was not the first person to bring race into this thread. i responded to someone who did.
Fair enough; I retract my finger-pointing.
But seriously, though: Why in the Hell are you trying to defend this clown?
JaTo
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Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
answer me this: if everyone had done their job perfectly with the exception of nagin would NOLA be in the situation it is now?
Absolutely.
if everyone including the head honcho widely criticized FEMA for its failure to respond quickly enough to, and for its poor handling of this disaster then how can you say we'd be in the exact same position had they been prepared and responded appropriately?
Because, as I said, FEMA can't make water go away. FEMA can't make a levee not fail. FEMA can't put out fires. FEMA can't stop looters. FEMA didn't sit around with its' thumb up its' butt wondering about the liability implications of a mandatory evacuation delaying a decision by 24 hours and costing Lord knows how many lives. FEMA didn't want until 9pm the night before to execute contraflow plans on the freeways. FEMA did not and could not have had any bearing on those decisions.
Any difference in the position of the city right now would be very small. Physically it would be in exactly the same shape with the exception of perhaps a few less floating bodies if things had gone as intended.
The evacuation of people could have gone off better, but if one were assigning blame that would certainly be more heavily weighted towards Nagin and the Governor than anyone. Nagin should have gotten more out of the city before it even hit -- FEMA should have gotten more out more quickly after the fact. But it got handed quite the clusterf*ck from Nagin. It's one reason why federal agencies were so incredibly flabbergasted and lost on what to do -- the plans didn't call for so many people still being left in the city and they certainly didn't call for so much lawlessness that diverted a lot of resources to deal with. That was all supposed to have been taken care of. It's amazing that between that and the incompetence of their then leader they were able to do anything at all.
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Originally posted by JaTo:
But seriously, though: Why in the Hell are you trying to defend this clown?
They are brothers. 
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