Originally posted by Cris'pus:

You just said "God knows who will choose and who will not." Hence, God knew that Adam AND Eve were not going to make the right choice, which means sin for man, which means "death thru sin" and would label God as the cause for death...

Now you ALSO, said that 'some choose to believe and some not'. If that was the case, we'd have Adam given free-will (the choice to take the apple) and God already knowing that he'd choose the apple. Your logic screams pre-destination but it doesn't. So which is it? We have free will but only move according to way we were destined or "chose" to go by God?



Just because God knew what Adam would choose does not mean that God chose it. That is my point. He gave them free will to make a decision. God did not create sin. Man did. And now we are all born siners because of the decision Adam and Eve made. If you dont get it I suggest you read the first few chapters of Genesis again. It's pretty plain there.

Originally posted by Cris'pus:

Luke 6:12-16 - Jesus chose apostles. Did God know one of his apostles was going to betray? Yes Ps 41:9. Why didn't God just say right there and then that it was Judas Iscariot?
Well, God gives Judas the same free will and blank canvas to make his choices but did God pre-destin him to betray Jesus...John 13:2 - Satan did. But according to your version of free will, God planned it, and would then be working with the Devil, as "he (Satan) put it into his heart"



Woah woah woah. What were you reading that gave you the impression that I said God predestined anything? I never ever said God planned it. He knew what would happen but He did not plan it. Just like the Hurricane. You think God sent that? He didn't, but He knew what would happen and the devastation it would cause. God allows us to make our own decisions. You are absolutely off your rocker if you think I was suggesting that God has predestined us. I don't believe that even the slitest. But that does not change the fact that God knows what will happen before it even does.

- Tim