Back on TOPIC.
Originally posted by Woodencross:
Originally posted by Cris'pus:
Are you a parent? If you are, do you step in your childs way EVERY time they are about to hurt themselves? Seriously, man, think about this...
Jer 21:8? 1 Jo 4:8? - even imperfect humans know a parent wouldn't deliberatly cause ruin for their child, when they say they 'love them'.
I didn't explain this good. You have me thinking that a parent is going to the Nth degree to protect their child. Well, how else does he/she learn? So yes, a parent will not hold back their child's free will, esp when they understand the options.
Originally posted by Corbett:
Who said anything about Him predestinating what they did?
You just said "God knows who will choose and who will not." Hence, God knew that Adam AND Eve were not going to make the right choice, which means sin for man, which means "death thru sin" and would label God as the cause for death...
Now you ALSO, said that 'some choose to believe and some not'. If that was the case, we'd have Adam given free-will (the choice to take the apple) and God already knowing that he'd choose the apple. Your logic screams pre-destination but it doesn't. So which is it? We have free will but only move according to way we were destined or "chose" to go by God?
Quote:
He gave them the decision even though He already knew what they would decide... It's your choice.
^^^Cornfusing^^^
How do I know that God didn't pre-destine them?
Deut 10:17 - God isn't partial, so would not already try to know who is going to accept him (altho he has the power to do so)
Deut 30 :19,20 - choose life or death. Not, 'choose and the seat in heaven that I predestined for you will be given'. If you had an extremely good singing voice, are you obligated to use it all the time? No, God chooses the times he needs to look into the future.
Luke 6:12-16 - Jesus chose apostles. Did God know one of his apostles was going to betray? Yes Ps 41:9. Why didn't God just say right there and then that it was Judas Iscariot?
Well, God gives Judas the same free will and blank canvas to make his choices but did God pre-destin him to betray Jesus...John 13:2 - Satan did. But according to your version of free will, God planned it, and would then be working with the Devil, as "he (Satan) put it into his heart"
â??Previous to Augustine [of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.] there was no serious development in Christianity of a theory of predestination.â? Before Augustine, earlier so-called â??Church Fathersâ? such as Justin, Origen, and Irenaeus â??know nothing of unconditional predestination; they teach free will.â? [The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge]
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
If men are rewarded for faith in god without evidence, why is it that we were created divinely with a natural tendency towards skepticism?
I'm stumped as to what things you were thinking of when someone is rewarded for faith in God w/o evidence.
