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Originally posted by Rishodi:
And this is 100% correct. I was glad that someone else brought it up, because I was going to otherwise. If Christian churches followed Jesus' teachings, they would not be involved in politics.
Talk about twisting scripture to fit what you want it to say! Sheesh! 
- Tim
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Rishodi:
And this is 100% correct. I was glad that someone else brought it up, because I was going to otherwise. If Christian churches followed Jesus' teachings, they would not be involved in politics.
Talk about twisting scripture to fit what you want it to say! Sheesh!
Oh I see, only your INTERPRETATION of the bible is the "real" interpretation... Get real.
You haven't made one convincing argument throughout this whole thread.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Simply because someone votes for Gay Marriage or Abortion DOES NOT mean that they believe in those practices.
I take it back. This is the quote of the day! Give me a break. Why would you vote for them and personally be against them? Sounds just like a certain 2004 candidate.
Oh, I dunno. Maybe because your constiuents feel differently than you about a subject. Or because you feel a law isn't just even though you might personally agree with its' intent. Things like that. The world isn't quite so black and white. Politicians vote contrary to their personal beliefs all the time.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Rishodi:
And this is 100% correct. I was glad that someone else brought it up, because I was going to otherwise. If Christian churches followed Jesus' teachings, they would not be involved in politics.
Talk about twisting scripture to fit what you want it to say! Sheesh!
How is that twisting it? Would you like more evidence? Go read John 6:15. You're supposed to follow Christ's example, right? And have you forgotten about the prophecy in Daniel that says in the wake of God's coming kingdom, all existing kingdoms will end? And what Jesus said about not being able to slave for two masters? I can provide more examples if you wish... how would you prefer to interpret it?
By the way, I have no motive to twist Scripture to my interpretation. I am not Christian, I am agnostic and I take only a scholarly interest in the Bible.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Bike2112:
God created the inspiration to be good.
Man created the church, not God. If God wanted his word to be truly heard, we would have no churches.
Freedom of religon INCLUDES freedom FROM religon. God and religon are NOT the same.
.02
Better take that $.02 back. You need to go read you Bible and not post something you heard from someone else.
Corbett,
Keep the .02. Ths country is founded on the right to speak freely, even if YOU do not agree with it. This whole thread is a perfect example of the dangers of organized religon. I'm not saying religon is bad, It is great for the 99.9% of the faithful out there. It's the .01% of those "know it all's" like yourself that hide behind the Bible, Koran or whatever. The Bible, Koran etc., are all great books written by who??? MAN, not god. God can control what he/she share with you personally, but once you try to share your beliefs with others, it becomes interpretation and not fact.
Your beliefs are yours and they work for you. That does not mean my beliefs are wrong just because you or anyone else does not agree with them.
P.S. My original post is my own, I did not hear it from someone else. I do not need to quote others, scriptures or whatever to get my point across like you do.
"Go read the Bible" What a line- I have read it, several times. It's a great book written as an interpretation of what people of the time believed God wanted to say. And for another matter, the Bible is not even a complete book at that.
Read your history pal!!!
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Wrong wrong wrong.
Thanks for proving you do not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. If I didnt believe it were, then I would think it was just a great book and thats all too!
- Tim
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Originally posted by Corbett:
You dont need evidence to agree with the fact that the morals of this country have gone down the tubes in the last 40 years. if you dont think so, then you probably dont have many morals to begin with.
I don't want to keep focusing on your posts, but with this one I have to ask how the racism and sexism that were prevalent 40 years ago are evidence of a better morality.
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Back on TOPIC.
Originally posted by Woodencross:
Originally posted by Cris'pus:
Are you a parent? If you are, do you step in your childs way EVERY time they are about to hurt themselves? Seriously, man, think about this...
Jer 21:8? 1 Jo 4:8? - even imperfect humans know a parent wouldn't deliberatly cause ruin for their child, when they say they 'love them'.
I didn't explain this good. You have me thinking that a parent is going to the Nth degree to protect their child. Well, how else does he/she learn? So yes, a parent will not hold back their child's free will, esp when they understand the options. Originally posted by Corbett:
Who said anything about Him predestinating what they did?
You just said "God knows who will choose and who will not." Hence, God knew that Adam AND Eve were not going to make the right choice, which means sin for man, which means "death thru sin" and would label God as the cause for death...
Now you ALSO, said that 'some choose to believe and some not'. If that was the case, we'd have Adam given free-will (the choice to take the apple) and God already knowing that he'd choose the apple. Your logic screams pre-destination but it doesn't. So which is it? We have free will but only move according to way we were destined or "chose" to go by God?
Quote:
He gave them the decision even though He already knew what they would decide... It's your choice.
^^^Cornfusing^^^
How do I know that God didn't pre-destine them?
Deut 10:17 - God isn't partial, so would not already try to know who is going to accept him (altho he has the power to do so)
Deut 30 :19,20 - choose life or death. Not, 'choose and the seat in heaven that I predestined for you will be given'. If you had an extremely good singing voice, are you obligated to use it all the time? No, God chooses the times he needs to look into the future.
Luke 6:12-16 - Jesus chose apostles. Did God know one of his apostles was going to betray? Yes Ps 41:9. Why didn't God just say right there and then that it was Judas Iscariot?
Well, God gives Judas the same free will and blank canvas to make his choices but did God pre-destin him to betray Jesus...John 13:2 - Satan did. But according to your version of free will, God planned it, and would then be working with the Devil, as "he (Satan) put it into his heart"
â??Previous to Augustine [of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.] there was no serious development in Christianity of a theory of predestination.â? Before Augustine, earlier so-called â??Church Fathersâ? such as Justin, Origen, and Irenaeus â??know nothing of unconditional predestination; they teach free will.â? [The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge]
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
If men are rewarded for faith in god without evidence, why is it that we were created divinely with a natural tendency towards skepticism?
I'm stumped as to what things you were thinking of when someone is rewarded for faith in God w/o evidence.
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Originally posted by Cris'pus:
You just said "God knows who will choose and who will not." Hence, God knew that Adam AND Eve were not going to make the right choice, which means sin for man, which means "death thru sin" and would label God as the cause for death...
Now you ALSO, said that 'some choose to believe and some not'. If that was the case, we'd have Adam given free-will (the choice to take the apple) and God already knowing that he'd choose the apple. Your logic screams pre-destination but it doesn't. So which is it? We have free will but only move according to way we were destined or "chose" to go by God?
Just because God knew what Adam would choose does not mean that God chose it. That is my point. He gave them free will to make a decision. God did not create sin. Man did. And now we are all born siners because of the decision Adam and Eve made. If you dont get it I suggest you read the first few chapters of Genesis again. It's pretty plain there.
Originally posted by Cris'pus:
Luke 6:12-16 - Jesus chose apostles. Did God know one of his apostles was going to betray? Yes Ps 41:9. Why didn't God just say right there and then that it was Judas Iscariot?
Well, God gives Judas the same free will and blank canvas to make his choices but did God pre-destin him to betray Jesus...John 13:2 - Satan did. But according to your version of free will, God planned it, and would then be working with the Devil, as "he (Satan) put it into his heart"
Woah woah woah. What were you reading that gave you the impression that I said God predestined anything? I never ever said God planned it. He knew what would happen but He did not plan it. Just like the Hurricane. You think God sent that? He didn't, but He knew what would happen and the devastation it would cause. God allows us to make our own decisions. You are absolutely off your rocker if you think I was suggesting that God has predestined us. I don't believe that even the slitest. But that does not change the fact that God knows what will happen before it even does.
- Tim
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the way i see it He provided us with the scripture to "live" by (by quotes i only mean that you can't apply the Bible as a tool to live by word for word in todays world) and by giving that knowledge combined with free will then man should be able to decide for himself, Heaven or Hell
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