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Originally posted by zgendron:
I'm not sure how many times I need to say this, or in how many different ways. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS A SIGNIFICANCE ON MY LIFE. You simply stated they do not, and I believe they do.
You may feel so, which is unfortunate.
The point I make in the previous post is relevant because if your attitude is passive in regards to perceived threat, then it only makes sense that you believe the Catholic church significantly influences your life. This, consequently, dilutes any point that you had.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Do you not understand that you live in a country where you can VOTE for what you believe is right. You and I have different beliefs. The catholic church currently supports what I and many americans also believe. Moveon.org supports what you believe. How can one organization have the right to influence politics and the other not? Would that be fair? I dont think so.
Why are you people being so dense on this conversation??? I never said that there aren't other groups out there with political influence. I never said that it was balanced. I never said that others do not agree with your position.
This was a simple argument disputing Davo's position that the Catholic Church does not have a significance in my life. I think it most certainly does. Do not twist this into anything else.
Can you prove to me that it does not?
Originally posted by Corbett:
And as far as your question about hoe it affects my life :
Gay Marriage would only further send this country down into the moralless pitt is has bene slipping into since the 60s. I am against gay mariage explicitly because the Bible says it is a sin to take part in homosexual activities.
Same goes for abortion.
LOL!!! So you don't think I should use my Real hypotheticals in this debate, but you are able to use that???? You've got to be kidding me!!! You're using the Slippery Slope Argument???
And what evidence do you have to support these allegations?
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Originally posted by zgendron:
And what evidence do you have to support these allegations?
I'm not using the slippery slope argument. Im saying its wha tthe Bible says and thats what I believe.
You dont need evidence to agree with the fact that the morals of this country have gone down the tubes in the last 40 years. if you dont think so, then you probably dont have many morals to begin with.
- Tim
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Originally posted by Davo:
You may feel so, which is unfortunate.
The point I make in the previous post is relevant because if your attitude is passive in regards to perceived threat, then it only makes sense that you believe the Catholic church significantly influences your life. This, consequently, dilutes any point that you had.
Davo,
Please understand that I have no disrespect to the Catholic Church. Although not Catholic, I did attend Catholic High School.
However, in terms of political involvement, no religious organization is more present than the Catholic Church. Now please understand what I am trying to say here.
The Catholic Church is different from most Christian organizations in that there is a heirarchy that travels directly to the top. Being a member of a UCC Church, we do not have this hierarchy in the same way. Sure, there is an organization, but its significantly different. Maybe it is this heirarchy that causes the Catholic Church to be more involved politically than any other religion, but its clear they are involved.
Examples would be refusing to give political figures communion based on their political views. Clearly the church is trying to influence politics directly. I do not see other religious organizations making other such stands.
Additionally, as I stated before, we need to seperate Catholics from the Catholic Church for the same reasons stated above. I cannot think of one example of how the UCC has tried to influence the political party. Additionally, our church is free to create its own bylaws and belief structure. Recently we voted to become an open and affirming church.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
I'm not using the slippery slope argument. Im saying its wha tthe Bible says and thats what I believe.
You dont need evidence to agree with the fact that the morals of this country have gone down the tubes in the last 40 years. if you dont think so, then you probably dont have many morals to begin with.
Thats fine that you believe it, but how does it affect you? The fact is that it does not, and you have no evidence to suggest otherwise.
As for morality slipping in the last 40 years, having been on this planet for less than 30 years, I'm working with a smaller window than you.
However, I think our country has made SIGNIFICANT improvements in equality, and acceptance. Do you remember how women and minorities used to be treated? If that isn't significant steps forward in morality, I'm not sure what is. Not to mention a STRONG teaching of Christianity.
- Zack
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How is that 'influencing' politics? If you don't meet the requirements the Catholic (i.e. God) has set forth to receive communion, then don't attend Catholic mass and go to a different church or abide by the Catholic guidelines  it's not hard. I don't go to a Baptist church because I'm not Baptist and I don't agree with their rule sets. If a politician or any person doesn't meet the requirements for communion then YOU DON'T GET IT. You second point, reinforces what has been wrong with the Christian community the last couple hundred years with all the different sections sprouting up. God did not give humansa menu to pick and choose from what they believe. I'll wrap it up and end my participation in this thread. The Catholic Church is a business; I recognize that. However, it is a business with morals, values, and a set rule set. (no preist jokes needed) If you don't agree wtih the Catholic Church, fine, don't Catholic. The Catholic church, IMO, has every right to influence the Government as they see fit, just as any other entity has the means to influence. If you don't like who they influence, don't vote for them... Originally posted by zgendron:
Examples would be refusing to give political figures communion based on their political views. Clearly the church is trying to influence politics directly. I do not see other religious organizations making other such stands.
Additionally, as I stated before, we need to seperate Catholics from the Catholic Church for the same reasons stated above. I cannot think of one example of how the UCC has tried to influence the political party. Additionally, our church is free to create its own bylaws and belief structure. Recently we voted to become an open and affirming church.
Ryan
Trollin!
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
How is that 'influencing' politics? If you don't meet the requirements the Catholic (i.e. God) has set forth to receive communion, then don't attend Catholic mass and go to a different church or abide by the Catholic guidelines it's not hard. I don't go to a Baptist church because I'm not Baptist and I don't agree with their rule sets. If a politician or any person doesn't meet the requirements for communion then YOU DON'T GET IT.
You second point, reinforces what has been wrong with the Christian community the last couple hundred years with all the different sections sprouting up. God did not give humansa menu to pick and choose from what they believe.
I'll wrap it up and end my participation in this thread. The Catholic Church is a business; I recognize that. However, it is a business with morals, values, and a set rule set. (no preist jokes needed) If you don't agree wtih the Catholic Church, fine, don't Catholic. The Catholic church, IMO, has every right to influence the Government as they see fit, just as any other entity has the means to influence. If you don't like who they influence, don't vote for them...
That's my whole point!!! These politicans were not having abortions or seeking to enter a gay marriage. They were only supporting it for others. Its a choice for those others to make, and it is THEIR RIGHT to make that decision. Simply because someone votes for Gay Marriage or Abortion DOES NOT mean that they believe in those practices. It simply means that people should have the right to make their own choice.
You do not see this type of stand in any other religious organization (IMO).
Last edited by zgendron; 09/20/05 08:16 PM.
- Zack
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Originally posted by zgendron:
Simply because someone votes for Gay Marriage or Abortion DOES NOT mean that they believe in those practices.
I take it back. This is the quote of the day! Give me a break. Why would you vote for them and personally be against them? Sounds just like a certain 2004 candidate.
- Tim
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Simply because someone votes for Gay Marriage or Abortion DOES NOT mean that they believe in those practices.
I take it back. This is the quote of the day! Give me a break. Why would you vote for them and personally be against them? Sounds just like a certain 2004 candidate.
ITS ABOUT EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!!
This is what I meant about being open minded. Think outside the box.
I have ZERO intention of seeking a gay marriage, but you damn well better believe I'm voting to support it. Why? Because another group is SEEKING TO BAN IT! If someone wasn't seeking to ban it, then I don't see why it would be an issue.
- Zack
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Originally posted by zgendron:
I have ZERO intention of seeking a gay marriage, but you damn well better believe I'm voting to support it. Why? Because another group is SEEKING TO BAN IT! If someone wasn't seeking to ban it, then I don't see why it would be an issue.
I'm so proud of you. It took you like 20 posts in this thread, but you're finally starting to come around. 
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