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Originally posted by zgendron:
Next. Now lets say I'm married to the above example of the woman that is raped. Now that affects my life.
Quit throwing around hypotheticals and tell us HOW the Catholic Church is directly afftecting the way you live your life.
- Tim
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Here's a shocker for you...
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT THE ONLY ORGANIZATION THAT IS TRYING TO STOP GAY MARRIAGE OR ABORTIONS There are many other CHRISTIAN organizations that are trying to do it.
Here's another shocker, THERE ARE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LOBBYING FOR THINGS THAT WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT YOU MORE THAN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Again, I never stated this. Lets not use this as your defense to Davo's statement that the Catholic Church does not have a significance on my life.
My point is that they do. Plain and Simple.
- Zack
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Next. Now lets say I'm married to the above example of the woman that is raped. Now that affects my life.
Quit throwing around hypotheticals and tell us HOW the Catholic Church is directly afftecting the way you live your life.
My god...do I really need to spell this out for you?
They are one of the groups lobbying for banning Gay Marriage and Abortions, which are rights I believe should be entitled to everyone. Passing these bans could directly affect my life. These are REAL possibilites, and simply more than hypothetical.
Should I wait until these laws are passed and then my wife, daughter, friend is raped? Comeon...
You've seemed to ignore my question on how either of these things directly affect your life. How convienent. 
- Zack
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CEG\'er
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Question. In order for any religious organization to maintain tax exempt status are they legally required to refrain from endorsing political candidates? I thought this rule was in place so that religious organizations would not try to influence the political process. Do they have other similar restrictions that would keep them from influencing politics? If they're working within the existing laws concerning tax exempt status I suppose they have just as much right as anyone else to participate in the political process. As long as they don't cross the line.
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Originally posted by zgendron:
Again...you are trying to twist the argument. Sorry, I won't bite.
No, I'm not ignorant to think that the Catholic Church is the only organization out there to influence or affect my life, but they are one.
I'll give you a direct example of how they could LIMIT MY RIGHTS and DIRECTLY AFFECT MY LIFE.
1.) Gay Marriage.
Lets assume that I am gay. The Catholic Church has lobbied to ban gay marriage, and won. I am now no longer able to wed my significant other.
2.) Abortion.
Lets say I'm a woman who is raped. The Catholic Church has lobbied to ban abortions and birth control, and won. I later find out I'm pregnant, and have no choice but to proceed with the birth.
Do not be so niave to think these are not REAL possibilities regardless of my religious or political stance.
Sooo....(again)....why is your solution, then, to suggest that Catholics should not act politically? Shouldn't you be creating your own organizations to counter the Catholic/Christian lobby? When I feel threatened (or 'concerned with') something, I don't wish or hope that that something goes away. Rather, I fight it. I felt threatened by the prospect of John Kerry becoming president; I didn't hope that he would go away, did I? No, I fought him with support for the better choice.
You reflect the liberal mindset perfectly.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Sooo....(again)....why is your solution, then, to suggest that Catholics should not act politically? Shouldn't you be creating your own organizations to counter the Catholic/Christian lobby? When I feel threatened (or 'concerned with') something, I don't wish or hope that that something goes away. Rather, I fight it. I felt threatened by the prospect of John Kerry becoming president; I didn't hope that he would go away, did I? No, I fought him with support for the better choice.
You reflect the liberal mindset perfectly.
Woah woah woah. Easy there. I never stated that as a solution. I think you were the one that tried to turn this conversation that way.
I'm not sure how many times I need to say this, or in how many different ways. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS A SIGNIFICANCE ON MY LIFE. You simply stated they do not, and I believe they do.
Additionally, I think we need to seperate Catholics and The Catholic Church here.
Last edited by zgendron; 09/20/05 07:36 PM.
- Zack
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Originally posted by zgendron:
My god...do I really need to spell this out for you?
They are one of the groups lobbying for banning Gay Marriage and Abortions, which are rights I believe should be entitled to everyone. Passing these bans could directly affect my life. These are REAL possibilites, and simply more than hypothetical.
Should I wait until these laws are passed and then my wife, daughter, friend is raped? Comeon...
You've seemed to ignore my question on how either of these things directly affect your life. How convienent.
Do you not understand that you live in a country where you can VOTE for what you believe is right. You and I have different beliefs. The catholic church currently supports what I and many americans also believe. Moveon.org supports what you believe. How can one organization have the right to influence politics and the other not? Would that be fair? I dont think so.
And as far as your question about hoe it affects my life :
Gay Marriage would only further send this country down into the moralless pitt is has bene slipping into since the 60s. I am against gay mariage explicitly because the Bible says it is a sin to take part in homosexual activities.
Same goes for abortion.
- Tim
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Quit throwing around hypotheticals and tell us HOW the Catholic Church is directly afftecting the way you live your life.
With all due respect, zgendron gave you two perfectly legitemate examples of how religious groups have succeeded in affecting others' lives. Whether the items in question specifically affect zgendron should be irrelevant, since it appears that, like me, he has the viewpoint that limiting the choices others can make is the definition of "imposing your will on others."
One group seeks to tell other people what they can and can't do in their personal lives based on religious teachings, the other group seeks to let each individual make these choices on his own.
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Originally posted by zgendron:
I'm not sure how many times I need to say this, or in how many different ways. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS A SIGNIFICANCE ON MY LIFE. You simply stated they do not, and I believe they do.
Quote of the day!
Seriously though. Even if the Catholic Church does have a significance on your life, then why is it that abortion is legal and gay rights are in limbo right now?
- Tim
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Originally posted by Viss1:
One group seeks to tell other people what they can and can't do in their personal lives based on religious teachings, the other group seeks to let each individual make these choices on his own.
So then why dont we just legalize murder too? How about cocaine? How far does it go?
- Tim
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