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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,854
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,854 |
Originally posted by SalKhan:
Original Sin ownz you bitche$!!!
gotta love how the rest of us pay for the mistake of adam & eve...if the supposed even existed.
1999 Silver Frost SVT
#609 of 2760
Quaife, lightened SVT Flywheel, SPEC stage II clutch, removed resonator, k&n drop in - various other goodies too.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,506
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,506 |
Is "Dogma" showing on cable again soon?
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,710
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,710 |
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
Well then why would he build us to naturally be skeptical if following our natural urges leads us to hell.
An example: We were created with legs, we have free will to either move or not move our legs, but naturally from the second we are born we move our legs because that is what we are programmed to do. Faith for mankind is not moving our legs when we want to. The only thing that teaches us to have faith is our knowledge of christianity. Without this knowledge humans are condemned to hell? If he loves us why would he do this? What about the unknown number that existed before christianity?
Man, you must have missed every post I have put up in the last 6 months on these forums.
Christianity does not get you into Heaven. Nor do good works. The Bible explicitly states the only way to enter into Heaven is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
What you need to understand is that we are all born sinners because of what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden thousands of years ago. After they sinned we all became sinners when we were born.
For many years the only way to be clean from sin was to offer up a sacrafice to God. The best of whatever you made or took care of. But then, God sent His Son Jesus to die for those sins. He was the Ultimate Sacrifice. He took all of our sins upon Himself. Now we are still born sinners, but if we choose to believe that Jesus died for these sins and repent of our sins then anyone who does can enter Heaven.
- Tim
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 265
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 265 |
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
If men are rewarded for faith in god without evidence
Most Christians, me among them, believe that God has revealed himself to us in several ways, one of those being His Creation. To me, a physicist by training, when I look at the complexity of human life, or some the quantum physical principles that govern our universe, I see God. I don't believe that these things came out of nothing, there has to be some guiding hand behind physics and the universe in general.
God has also revealed Himself through scripture, which I take to be the divinely inspired Word of God. It was influenced by man, as evidenced in the Gospels or the letters of Paul, but it was divinely inspired through the Holy Spirit. So, if you believe these things, and have faith in God, your faith is not without evidence for God.
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
why is it that we were created divinely with a natural tendency towards skepticism? If our god loves us as we are told in the Bible, why would he condemn so many from the start.
I believe God created us with a free will, or as you put it a natural tendency towards skepticism, because He did not want robots that would blindly accept His existence and obey Him no matter what. He wanted someone He could talk to and commune with, and who would worship Him out of their love for Him, not just because He said they should. Look at Genesis 3:8, God walking in the garden and looking for Adam. This is why we were created with a free will.
As for the condemning part, we as humans did this ourselves by disobeying God. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, then they condemned themselves to a life of separation from God, that at first was only reenabled through the Jewish law, then later through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. God does not want to see us condemned. There are several instances in the Old Testament of God's prophets saying "Repent and turn from your ways or I will destroy you" to Israel. They were His Chosen people, and yet He exiled them from the land He had promised them because they did not obey Him.
As Sigma said, the skepticism we have is a healthy one, because if we actually investigate answers to the questions we have, whether from the Bible, God, or someone who believes in God, we find the Truth and answers to our questions. However, there are some things that we cannot explain because of our limited human minds. God is an infinite being and we are finite, so we can't understand and will not understand until we are in heaven with God.
Andrew
Andrew
1992 Toyota Celica GT
Formerly Mines SVT
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Newbie
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Newbie
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I totally agree with Corbett.
That is what I was told in conformation class...
I feel your obscene hardness grow beneath my palm.
* "It's your duty as an American to get naked."
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,193
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,193 |
Just a question, why is the Catholic Church specified here... Are we referring to a specific Catholic tenet of faith or of Christianity in general.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,609
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,609 |
Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
Well then why would he build us to naturally be skeptical if following our natural urges leads us to hell.
An example: We were created with legs, we have free will to either move or not move our legs, but naturally from the second we are born we move our legs because that is what we are programmed to do. Faith for mankind is not moving our legs when we want to. The only thing that teaches us to have faith is our knowledge of christianity. Without this knowledge humans are condemned to hell? If he loves us why would he do this? What about the unknown number that existed before christianity?
Man, you must have missed every post I have put up in the last 6 months on these forums.
Christianity does not get you into Heaven. Nor do good works. The Bible explicitly states the only way to enter into Heaven is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
What you need to understand is that we are all born sinners because of what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden thousands of years ago. After they sinned we all became sinners when we were born.
For many years the only way to be clean from sin was to offer up a sacrafice to God. The best of whatever you made or took care of. But then, God sent His Son Jesus to die for those sins. He was the Ultimate Sacrifice. He took all of our sins upon Himself. Now we are still born sinners, but if we choose to believe that Jesus died for these sins and repent of our sins then anyone who does can enter Heaven.
I totally agree here with Tim....and I was confirmed in the Catholic religion!
1998.5 SVT contour #5979 3L 
1995 Mercury Mystique 2.5L auto, all ghetto fo sho
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065 |
Originally posted by starjammir:
Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
Well then why would he build us to naturally be skeptical if following our natural urges leads us to hell.
An example: We were created with legs, we have free will to either move or not move our legs, but naturally from the second we are born we move our legs because that is what we are programmed to do. Faith for mankind is not moving our legs when we want to. The only thing that teaches us to have faith is our knowledge of christianity. Without this knowledge humans are condemned to hell? If he loves us why would he do this? What about the unknown number that existed before christianity?
Man, you must have missed every post I have put up in the last 6 months on these forums.
Christianity does not get you into Heaven. Nor do good works. The Bible explicitly states the only way to enter into Heaven is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
What you need to understand is that we are all born sinners because of what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden thousands of years ago. After they sinned we all became sinners when we were born.
For many years the only way to be clean from sin was to offer up a sacrafice to God. The best of whatever you made or took care of. But then, God sent His Son Jesus to die for those sins. He was the Ultimate Sacrifice. He took all of our sins upon Himself. Now we are still born sinners, but if we choose to believe that Jesus died for these sins and repent of our sins then anyone who does can enter Heaven.
I totally agree here with Tim....and I was confirmed in the Catholic religion!
So was I. Am I set then?! I mean I like to think St. Peter and I are pretty tight. 
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467 |
Originally posted by Rishodi:
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
So I was just thinking and I came up with an interesting observation:
If men are rewarded for faith in god without evidence, why is it that we were created divinely with a natural tendency towards skepticism? If our god loves us as we are told in the Bible, why would he condemn so many from the start.
What do you mean? No one is condemned from the start, everyone has their chance at life. Would you elaborate?
Actually, you are already born in sin. So, you will forever be in sin, until you turn your life over to God. My whole thing is, that if God is all knowing, then he would have seen the coming of the Devil. He would have known Adam and Eve would do what they did.
Last edited by Antonio Wright; 09/20/05 03:43 AM.
Now I hate America? That is a new one to me.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,710
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,710 |
Originally posted by Antonio Wright:
Actually, you are already born in sin. So, you will forever be in sin, until you turn your life over to God. My whole thing is, that if God is all knowing, then he would have seen the coming of the Devil. He would have known Adam and Eve would do what they did.
You are right. He did know what they would do before they did it. It does sound confusing but like sigma said, He gave us free will to decide what we wanted. Just like we have the decision to believe or not.
- Tim
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