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Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
So I was just thinking and I came up with an interesting observation:
If men are rewarded for faith in god without evidence, why is it that we were created divinely with a natural tendency towards skepticism? If our god loves us as we are told in the Bible, why would he condemn so many from the start.
I didn't feel like reading everybody's reply, so forgive any repeating...
God doesn't condemn anybody. You condemn yourself. He says it in the Bible that even if you never hear about Him through traditional means, the earth has been created so that there is proof of His existence. In other words, man stands without excuse before God. We are given the knowledge that He exists, and it's up to us to choose to believe or live without His power in our lives...
As for skepticism...Skepticism can actually bring you closer to God. Think about it.
If I tell you something that seems completely outrageous. You obviously would be skeptical. Skepticism, if treated properly, leads you to researching what I've told you. There are two outcomes of research. One, you find that the thing I told you is completely false, and you dismiss it. Or, two, you confirm what I've told you and you become a firm believer in it.
Skepticism is actually good, because it allows you to find the true answer. It's always good, in my opinion, to have a little skepticism, so that you NEVER take anything for granted. Testing what you believe is a good way to ensure that your beliefs are well founded in truth.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Antonio Wright:
Actually, you are already born in sin. So, you will forever be in sin, until you turn your life over to God. My whole thing is, that if God is all knowing, then he would have seen the coming of the Devil. He would have known Adam and Eve would do what they did.
You are right. He did know what they would do before they did it. It does sound confusing but like sigma said, He gave us free will to decide what we wanted. Just like we have the decision to believe or not.
So God gave Adam and Eve free will, the power to Choose, yet predestined them to die? And for a wicked angel to (God knowing) mislead mankind and put it in the state it's in now? The wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease? He would be the Source of all.
Jer 21:8? 1 Jo 4:8? - even imperfect humans know a parent wouldn't deliberatly cause ruin for their child, when they say they 'love them'.
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Originally posted by Cris'pus:
Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Antonio Wright:
Actually, you are already born in sin. So, you will forever be in sin, until you turn your life over to God. My whole thing is, that if God is all knowing, then he would have seen the coming of the Devil. He would have known Adam and Eve would do what they did.
You are right. He did know what they would do before they did it. It does sound confusing but like sigma said, He gave us free will to decide what we wanted. Just like we have the decision to believe or not.
So God gave Adam and Eve free will, the power to Choose, yet predestined them to die? And for a wicked angel to (God knowing) mislead mankind and put it in the state it's in now? The wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease? He would be the Source of all.
Jer 21:8? 1 Jo 4:8? - even imperfect humans know a parent wouldn't deliberatly cause ruin for their child, when they say they 'love them'.
Are you a parent? If you are, do you step in your childs way EVERY time they are about to hurt themselves? Seriously, man, think about this...
God is the Source of all, but nowhere does God say we have to live with the crap around us. In fact, He says, follow Him and He will provide, He will protect, and He will bear all your burdens. He also says, that if you choose to ignore His word, you will suffer the consequences of those wrong actions...
And unfortunately, since we don't all live on our own individual islands, we have to suffer the consequences of other people's stupid decisions too...So, according to the Bible, we should be holding our brothers and sisters accountable to a standard...But that's a different topic...
As for God being a parent who says He loves us, and allowing all this "evil" to be in the world...
I'm a parent of three, and if I could, I would do everything in my power to protect my children from everything I know that could hurt them. Do I though? No. I have given my children the freedom to be able to make some decisions on their own. And what they do with that freedom it up to them. Now, I do give them guidance, but they also have a choice. If they choose the wrong action, they get a very quick example of why they should have listened to me. Now granted, my kids being all 4 and under, have few choices right now, but as time goes on, more choices and responsibilites will be opened to them. They make the choice on what to do....
Hence, we are to listen to God because He is very caring and loving, and He knows what will hurt us, but He didn't create you and me to be robots. He created us to have free will, make choices, etc etc etc. Therefore, we make the wrong choice, we have exactly what you said we will. It's not because he wants us to have it, but because by giving us free will, we make the choices that lead up to those things...
And on top of that, God saved us through His son Jesus Christ. What more could you ask? He came to this world, became like us, suffered an unimaginable death, and saved everybody in the world...He has given us guidance, now it's up to us, to choose to accept Him...
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So why is this a Catholicism debate? I think a title should be a Christian debate...
Ryan
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Speaking of which, what's unique about Catholicism? Belief in the Pope?
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Originally posted by Cris'pus:
So God gave Adam and Eve free will, the power to Choose, yet predestined them to die? And for a wicked angel to (God knowing) mislead mankind and put it in the state it's in now? The wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease? He would be the Source of all.
Jer 21:8? 1 Jo 4:8? - even imperfect humans know a parent wouldn't deliberatly cause ruin for their child, when they say they 'love them'.
Who said anything about Him predestinating what they did? Just because He knew what was going to happen did not mean that is what He chose to have happen. He gave them the decision even though He already knew what they would decide. Same goes for everyone today. We have the choice ot believe. Some choose not to believe, some choose TO believe. God already knows who will choose and who will not, but that does not mean He has predestined who will get into Heaven. It's your choice.
- Tim
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That's one, but that is opening another can of worms... Originally posted by Viss1:
Speaking of which, what's unique about Catholicism? Belief in the Pope?
Ryan
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Originally posted by Viss1:
Speaking of which, what's unique about Catholicism? Belief in the Pope?
1. They do not believe you can confess your sins directly to God, but through a priest.
2. They believe there is more than one way to enter Heaven.
3. They believe there is a purgatory.
- Tim
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Thanks. What are some of the ways they believe one can enter Heaven?
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I would like to know that as well.... I am a recent convert, so my knowledge is still growing, but from what know, we (Catholics) believe that there is only way into Heaven as well, that is as Corbertt earlier said, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, if you want to say Purgatory is 'another' way into Heaven, then so be it. What you will find is that people outside the Catholic faith have a 'distaste' for our beliefs. I'm not saying Tim does, but from my experience Baptist tend to be the ones who 'dislike' us the most... Originally posted by Viss1:
Thanks. What are some of the ways they believe one can enter Heaven?
Ryan
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