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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
Don't be a tool, he just said he'd skipped to the end.
Hey you get what you ask for posting that ish. You don't read the post you're going to get lambasted. He's about 5 years out of date with the Ford lube specs for the MTX75 and IB5 trans.
Also per Terry:
Ford Spec (WSD-M2C200-C) for honey was activated/released on 2/24/98,revised on 5/22/01 and the last revision on 8/31/04.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Funny, this entire thread is turning into a joke too!
Mark
How do you figure that? Maybe to you.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,141
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,141 |
Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by FordMonkey:
Not sure if anyone addressed this in a post already since I skipped to the end, but Redline MTL should not be used in Contour transaxles for the following reasons:
1.) Both manual & automatic transmission require Mercon ATF
2.) MTL is for standard manual transmissions and is not compatible with or to be used on transmission that require ATF
[sarcasm]No this has never been mentioned. Thanks for helping out though.[/sarcasm]
i find it odd that you are bashing people that are backing your side of the story.....
99 SE V6\5spd - 156 HP\157 TQ 15.166-90.84
Totaled 02/12/06
99 SVT # 1571 - 175 HP\153 TQ 14.999-91.88
Born 3/24/99 Reborn 3/18/06
Pietenpol Racing Technologies project vehicle
90 Festiva L 5spd, Blue(not for long), 103k
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065 |
I agree this thread is a complete joke. When ppl start sending Terry emails about why my trans failed... 
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by pole120:
i find it odd that you are bashing people that are backing your side of the story.....
Why? He's stating what has already been. We don't need umpteen more ppl jumping on here not reading the thread posting whatever.
Further more this is not true as I posted
1.) Both manual & automatic transmission require Mercon ATF
Honey is the spec.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
Originally posted by FordMonkey:
Synthetic products from Mobil (Mobil 1), Castrol (Syntec) and other major oil companies are typically made from Group III base stock (petroleum oil) rather than more expensive Group IV or V base stock (PAO or diesters).
Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil sued Castrol about using Group III base stocks and calling it synthetic and lost. Since then, others have introduced "synthetic" oils that are Group III, but not Mobil.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,336
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Posts: 1,336 |
Originally posted by Big Jim:
Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil sued Castrol about using Group III base stocks and calling it synthetic and lost. Since then, others have introduced "synthetic" oils that are Group III, but not Mobil.
Since loosing that lawsuit, Mobil has switched to Group III ... they have increased their profits as a result, which has more than paid for their lawsuit ... hypocrytes!
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by FordMonkey:
1.) Both manual & automatic transmission require Mercon ATF
When Ford introduced the synthetic "honey" for the MTX75 manual transmissions, they published a TSB (which has been already cited on this thread) that said that "honey" was factory till and required for all transmissions built after that date (early 2000) and that "honey" was recommended as both top off and refill for all prior MTX75 transmissios.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,336
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Well, after some more research, it appears that I have found much conflicting information concerning Mobil1 and their user of Group III vs. Group IV base stock. All the "official" reading states that they do indeed use a Group IV ... foot in mouth 
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by todras:
Drom Terry today
...today I opened up a V6 MTX from a customer in
Linden ,Mi,Todd M...99 Contour V6 ,over 100,000 on
it,supect diff(kicking back thru steering wheel,couple
of teeth starting to go on the diff gears),bad 3rd
gear syncro....
This trans was running red ATF....,about 1/3 of the muck on the magnet Vs Petes and the case was very clean,no black stain
This is significant information.
Personally, I will not be using Red Line MTL until there is a better answer to what is going on with their fluid. I would say that it would be a way to err on the side of caution.
I'm sure that a lot of this would have never happened if there was not so much confusion about just what Ford "honey" really is. If Ford would have been more forthcoming about the composition of their fluid or at least about it's specs people would not have been casting about trying to find a reasonable alternative. Along with this is using a fluid that is priced at about $20.00 a quart for an entry level or near entry level car is unconscionable.
Just like engines, manual transmissions will work just fine with a range of viscosity. The fact that the MTX75 was marketed in the US for over 5 years using ATF pretty much means that it was suitable. Longer if you count the Mondeo. It was even considered "lifetime" fill. Then for Ford to replace it with a dedicated fluid with little information as to what it is just muddied the water.
Ford's own spec sheet for "honey" says it is suitable for manual transmissions requiring GL3/4 75W90 gear oil. Now during the course of this thread we learn that it may really be relabeled Castrol SMX-S which Castrol says can be used wherever a 75W85 GL3/4 gear oil is required. That's hardly anything that will pin down just what it is. Also Castrol does not market this product in the US.
Considering that the MTX75 started life using Mercon ATF and then later got moved to something that appears to be a manual trans gear oil in the 75W90 or 75W85 range pretty much indicates an improved manual trans oil that is either as thin as ATF or as thick as 75W90 should work fine.
So what happened to the Red Line?
We don't have a good answer. We don't have a used oil analysis from the trans that failed. We don't even have a used oil analysis of the trans that Terry opened that was rebuild 14,000 miles ago and had only used Red Line MTL.
Yes, we have two virgin oil analysis that show that Ford "honey" and Red Line MTL are not an exact match. But then, a virgin oil analysis of ATF would also not be a match and it worked OK for over 5 years before Ford changed the spec.
I have it from good authority that there is no reason that the best manual transmission fluids cannot be GL rated. What is more important is what was used to gain the GL rating. Some GL additives can be damaging to yellow metals, but not all. If the right additives are used to incresase GL ability, there is no reason that it cannot meet GL5 spec. Just as important is what friction modifiers were used so that on balance the transmission will live and shift properly.
It looks to me that the Red Line MTL in a MTX75 may be bad news. It looks like the anti oxidant additives were depleted and allowed the oil to start breaking down on the trans that Terry opened for inspection. Until I know more, I will not use it.
Does that mean the Ford "honey" is the only answer? I doubt it.
(FLAME SUIT ON)
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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