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#1380269 09/21/05 02:20 PM
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Nah, I won't doubt them. I(like a lot of others on here) want to know the source of the information. I just hope everything gets sorted out and I can make a more informed decision this winter when I decide to change my tranny fluid.

Mark


2000 Black CSVT 3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
#1380270 09/21/05 02:30 PM
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Mark you should totally be able to make a decision already. I suppose I am biased because I held my quaife and tempured gears in my hands....


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#1380271 09/21/05 03:13 PM
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More info from accross the pond.

FYI Castrol in Germany are the manf. of Ford Honey....

The manufacturer was Burmah-Castrol but I
guess that's now BP, who own it. The original product
was "BOT 130 M GETRIEBEOEL" but may be sold under the
Castrol name there as "SMX-S" gear oil. I couldn't
find it on the Castrol USA Website, so you may be out
of luck. That's the only approved product so no chance
of going elsewhere.

From two users of the lube in UK:-

After contacting Castrol in Germany (our neighbours..)
They gave me the advise to use Castrol SMX-S fully
synthetic gear oil. This combined with an additive
called TSL made my gearbox change gears like never
before.

For gear box: Castrol SMX-S Manual Transmission fluid.
No definite info on GL specs or so. The text on the
bottle says: specially
developed for gear boxes which require API GL-3 or -4
or engine oil...

A word from a lube supplier in USA:-

Castrol�® manufactured a synthetic transmission fluid
called TranSynd�® in conjunction with Allison�® to be
used in heavy-duty Allison�® transmissions. With the
introduction of this oil, Allison�® established the
Technical Engineering Specification-295 (TES-295), and
only operators using TES-295 oils can extend drain
intervals according to Allison�® recommendations in
bulletin 10-TR-99 Rev. B, and only those operators are
eligible to purchase the Allison�¨ extended
transmission coverage (ETC) warranty. Although
Castrol�® has since made that product available to
other marketers, manufacturers outside that limited
sphere are handcuffed. To achieve TES-295 is virtually
impossible because Allison�¨ has not made the TES-295
test stand available and has not established the
necessary formalized field trial protocol. Therefore,
AMSOIL performed a reverse engineering process on
TranSynd�® to uncover its chemical make-up, and then
formulated a product based on the same type of
chemical technology.

More info from a chemical/lube engineer:-

Lubricating oils should be carefully selected for
specific applications and not haphazardly applied. The
dominant wear mechanism and environmental contaminants
and hazards that are expected or known to occur in a
piece of equipment should be known and countered by an
effectively designed lubricant formulation including
base oil type, viscosity and additive package.
Heavily loaded components should be protected first by
viscosity if possible, and antiwear or mild to heavy
extreme pressure properties as needed. These additive
packages all protect equipment from rapid mechanical
wear at the cost of inducing some amount of chemical
wear, relative to the aggressiveness (strength) of the
antiscuff package. In lighter load situations, an
over-aggressive lubricant can shorten equipment life
through corrosive attack without providing any useful
benefit.
Note that some synthetic basestocks (such as diesters)
have some limited natural antiwear properties without
causing surface degradation, and that some lubricity
agents found in compounded oils are nonchemically
reactive.
Adam Davis, Noria Corporation


-'96 SE MTX 3L -'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535 -'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride -Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
#1380272 09/21/05 03:55 PM
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Excellent information. I just want to point out that I read nothing in that information that states anything contrary to the information we have on MTL from any source at this time. The rest is basic lubrication information when selecting an oil.
I had become quite educated on engine oils from research and now it looks like I'll be getting even more from researching gear lubes in general.
I'll be interested to see what the MTL and Honey results from new oils come back as.
It could end up being a VERY good thing that comes out of this.


Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760 356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas! See My Mods '05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red '06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
#1380273 09/21/05 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by warmonger:
Excellent information. I just want to point out that I read nothing in that information that states anything contrary to the information we have on MTL from any source at this time. The rest is basic lubrication information when selecting an oil.
I had become quite educated on engine oils from research and now it looks like I'll be getting even more from researching gear lubes in general.
I'll be interested to see what the MTL and Honey results from new oils come back as.
It could end up being a VERY good thing that comes out of this.





You might want to read a little more carefully. The results ARE from new UNUSED samples. You say you haven't read anything contrary to MTL? Might I copy and paste a certain paragraph in the post above yours?

Lubricating oils should be carefully selected for
specific applications and not haphazardly applied. The
dominant wear mechanism and environmental contaminants
and hazards that are expected or known to occur in a
piece of equipment should be known and countered by an
effectively designed lubricant formulation including
base oil type, viscosity and additive package.
Heavily loaded components should be protected first by
viscosity if possible, and antiwear or mild to heavy
extreme pressure properties as needed. These additive
packages all protect equipment from rapid mechanical
wear at the cost of inducing some amount of chemical
wear, relative to the aggressiveness (strength) of the
antiscuff package. In lighter load situations, an
over-aggressive lubricant can shorten equipment life
through corrosive attack without providing any useful
benefit.
Note that some synthetic basestocks (such as diesters)
have some limited natural antiwear properties without
causing surface degradation, and that some lubricity
agents found in compounded oils are nonchemically
reactive.
Adam Davis, Noria Corporation


et al

In lighter load situations, an over-aggressive lubricant can shorten equipment life through corrosive attack without providing any useful benefit.


-'96 SE MTX 3L -'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535 -'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride -Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
#1380274 09/21/05 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by todras:


In lighter load situations, an over-aggressive lubricant can shorten equipment life through corrosive attack without providing any useful benefit.





I read that to mean that the high-EP gear oils (GL-5) are not a good idea for the MTX-75, a point that's already been made, and yet, says nothing about MTL since it is not of this variety. The "corrosive attack" is obviously a result of the chemical additives in a GL-5 that can be corrosive to the brass/bronze alloys typical in a synchronized manual transmission.

I'm with Warmonger.


Function before fashion. '96 Contour SE "Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
#1380275 09/21/05 04:50 PM
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Ok... I would guess that the darkness and smell of the MTL is ONLY from failing/failed tranny and/or differential. I've changed my MTL 2 times (about 10,000-12,000 miles apart) and each time it looked almost like new -- no smell, cherry red, and no metal flakes. I just changed out the MTL for a 3rd time about 2 weeks ago. My diff began failing yesterday and I drained it when I got home. It stank like hypoid, was dark brown/red... and was filled with metal flakes (looked like a ricer paint job). The drain plug was even gouged and scraped

I am definetly NOT blaming the MTL -- I do abuse my car. I AM saying that the nastyness that Terry has found in the trannys are most likely ONLY a result of a failed tranny/diff (probably due to extensive heat generated by the failing components -- my tranny. Why else would he be working on a tranny if it hadn't already failed?


morbid 2000 Contour SVT (black)
#1380276 09/21/05 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by morbid:
Ok... I would guess that the darkness and smell of the MTL is ONLY from failing/failed tranny and/or differential. I've changed my MTL 2 times (about 10,000-12,000 miles apart) and each time it looked almost like new -- no smell, cherry red, and no metal flakes. I just changed out the MTL for a 3rd time about 2 weeks ago. My diff began failing yesterday and I drained it when I got home. It stank like hypoid, was dark brown/red... and was filled with metal flakes (looked like a ricer paint job). The drain plug was even gouged and scraped

I am definetly NOT blaming the MTL -- I do abuse my car. I AM saying that the nastyness that Terry has found in the trannys are most likely ONLY a result of a failed tranny/diff (probably due to extensive heat generated by the failing components -- my tranny. Why else would he be working on a tranny if it hadn't already failed?



Very good point, but WHY did your diff fail is a better question! What kind of diff? Stock or LSD?

#1380277 09/21/05 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by morbid:


I am definetly NOT blaming the MTL -- I do abuse my car. I AM saying that the nastyness that Terry has found in the trannys are most likely ONLY a result of a failed tranny/diff (probably due to extensive heat generated by the failing components -- my tranny. Why else would he be working on a tranny if it hadn't already failed?





Uuuuu you might to read this thread again then. "ONLY a result of a failed tranny." He volunteered to open it up free of charge to inspect it in case you missed the huge amount of posts on it! Pete's car is down and the tranny was pulled from the car. It most likely will get slick shift forks installed since it is out. PLEASE DON'T POST THEORIES IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW ALONG AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.


-'96 SE MTX 3L -'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535 -'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride -Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
#1380278 09/21/05 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by morbid:
Ok... I would guess that the darkness and smell of the MTL is ONLY from failing/failed tranny and/or differential. I've changed my MTL 2 times (about 10,000-12,000 miles apart) and each time it looked almost like new -- no smell, cherry red, and no metal flakes. I just changed out the MTL for a 3rd time about 2 weeks ago. My diff began failing yesterday and I drained it when I got home. It stank like hypoid, was dark brown/red... and was filled with metal flakes (looked like a ricer paint job). The drain plug was even gouged and scraped






And another MTL user bites the dust. Anymore? Why are you changing it so often. Must have $ to throw around on $10 a qt gear lube. As stated a million times. Of course it will look good coming out. The sludge isn't going to pour out in it! This is getting so old hat it isn't funny. The only reason this thread is still going is because 2 respected members know everything. What about one "disrespected" member with the means/education to tell you what not to use? Guess that means nothing even though all the evidence backs his claims and more comes to light as this thread grows. He builds most of the performance tranny's on here. Haven't heard of any of them failing either. Why no one listens to him when he tells you what's going on with the ones running MTL is way beyond me. He shows documented pics, spends $200 on independent lab tests and communicates with experts/engineers in the chemical engineering field gathering their take on the issues. I missed where others are doing that.


-'96 SE MTX 3L -'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535 -'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride -Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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