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Scourge of the Master Debaters
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Scourge of the Master Debaters
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I can host them, but I won't have access to my webserver until tonight. Email them to me if you can't find another source. hetfield at hetfield.net
Beer is my Gatorade.
Hooray Beer.
'98 "Sport" Pacific Green
'98 E0 SVT Silver Frost
Pictures
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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todras you are so one sided you made me post in this thread again.
It was never in question that MTL was a lower viscosity. (it's rated around 80-85w) Matter of fact it has been mentioned 100's of times in a context like as follows.
"MLT is between the original Mercon ATF and the New Ford honey in viscosity. This will give better start up and colder weather shifting while still giving you the benefits of running a true gear oil instead of the lesser protecting ATF."
Also it was mentioned about as many times that MT-90 is more of a direct viscosity comparison to the specs of the Honey.
So that in itself is proving nothing against the fluid.
Also Zinc is used as an antiwear additive. It is found in many antiwear chemical compounds.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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I have no life
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I have no life
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Also Zinc is used as an antiwear additive. It is found in many antiwear chemical compounds.
Blacksone said the common amout of zinc in a gear lube is around 1000 parts per million, honey has 1161 and MTL 3419!Way overkill and of little benefit. Per Terry
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Addicted CEG\'er
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Also Zinc is used as an antiwear additive. It is found in many antiwear chemical compounds.
Blacksone said the common amout of zinc in a gear lube is around 1000 parts per million, honey has 1161 and MTL 3419!Way overkill and of little benefit. Per Terry
Then I think that point needs to be thrown out. I don't think we're concerned as much in this case with what is giving that EXTRA little bit of protection, as we are with what is sludging up trannies.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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Joined: May 2000
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I have no life
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I have no life
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Also Zinc is used as an antiwear additive. It is found in many antiwear chemical compounds.
Blacksone said the common amout of zinc in a gear lube is around 1000 parts per million, honey has 1161 and MTL 3419!Way overkill and of little benefit. Per Terry
Then I think that point needs to be thrown out. I don't think we're concerned as much in this case with what is giving that EXTRA little bit of protection, as we are with what is sludging up trannies.
Mark
Wow needs less Demon stroking. Thrown out!? Are you insane? I want to know what also is causing this? If you want to have an LSD in your tanny that looks like this then fine but I sure as hell don't. All the pieces add up.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: May 2000
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I have no life
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I have no life
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
todras you are so one sided you made me post in this thread again.
ME ONE SIDED! Look in the mirror much? You have all this evidence and still you're still not seeing it. Ooookkkaaay.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Posts: 2,353
Hard-core CEG'er
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Just a side note, Marky and I changed out my MTL tranny fluid this past weekend. I have 90,000 miles on my car and this was my second 30,000 mile run of MTL, so about 60,000 miles total with MTL. Once again as the last time, the fluid came out amazingly clean. It looked practically the same as the new fluid I put in and had no distinct smell. In comparison, I used the "cocktail" from 25,000mi to 30,000mi and was unhappy with the performance. Very notchy shifting and when I drained it, it was black and had metal particles in the fluid. Not to mention the ungodly smell of the friction modifier. Just my experience and .02... 
1999 Blk/Tan CSVT #654 - SOLD
2003 Suzuki SV650s
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Zinc, phosphorous, magnesium and calcium are all part of typical additive packages. Zinc is one of the main anti-wear components of the add. pack. The amount of zinc varies based upon application and the oil/add. pack manufacturer. Our CAT hydraulic 10W test oil runs at about 700 ppm zinc. This is about the bottom end of whats commercially available worldwide - in our eyes the more zinc the better. Engine and gear oils run all over the place in terms of zinc, so I wouldn't say 3500 ppm of zinc is overkill.
'98 SVT Red/midnight blue - a few mods
E0 wheels for sale - PM me
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by todras:
Ford Honey
http://www.fototime.com/DF79FEECAB57E27/standard.jpg
MTL
http://www.fototime.com/9111AAA5BD1B1F5/standard.jpg
From Terry:
the FMC (honey) the baseline of what the content of
MTL should be(or any other 'aftermarket' lube for an
MTX75)...compare the numbers....not too close is
it!
--------------
Also with Terry's chat with the lab MTL = straight 30 weight
oil, Honey = 15W40, so honey is already a higher
viscosity than MTL! At 210 deg F a straight ATF is
42 to 45, MTL = 57.4, honey is 80.7. They also said that
the zinc and phosphorus is very high in MTL. Sulphr is
yet to arrive but again I have to say, thus far, MTL
does not 'match' honey in its make up.
Sulfer results to come. 
I've gone over my bandwidth in my fototime account so it's resizing them automatically. Anyone want to host so ppl can read em?
Didn't Terry say it wasn't all about viscosity?
Another question. If that transmission was shipped with no oil; and the the waste oil was already thrown out then where are these samples coming from? Are these brand new oil samples straight out of the jug? i was under the impression it would be the oils as found in the transmission but that would have to have been drawn from the container from the old oil. If you take the leavings in the bottom it would be higher in solids (insolubles) and maybe even other materials from the breakdown of surface metals and oxides. Would have been nice to see the results from oil siphoned off of the bulk of the oil change.
Oh, and just FYI high zinc content is a very old way to make motor oils better at protecting the engine according to the old timer auto techs out there. Penzoil was a preferred racing oil back in the day because of high zinc content.
Is that a bad thing now? I'll check on it. I'm also going to have to get copies of these tests that I can actually read.
Thanks for the information though.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Wow. Did you save that oil from the last MTL change? I'd be interested in seeing what it looked like if you were to put it into a clear plastic container with light behind it. An oil test for comparison would also be nice but thats probably asking too much.  Still, you're results with the cocktail are very similar to mine and I ran mine only about 30 days or so. I ran the MTL a year and a half but had less miles on it than you did so maybe not as definitive a result.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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