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I do, but I have only had MTL in the gear box for 5 months now (only about 2800 miles).
'98 SVT Red/midnight blue - a few mods
E0 wheels for sale - PM me
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Joined: May 2000
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I have no life
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I have no life
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Originally posted by pole120:
all i know after reading as much of this as i could, is that my upcoming fluid change will involve 3 qts of Penzoil Syncromesh......
And why would that be? Because Demon is running it? Do your own research. He said he did his research on MTL. Must be great stuff since he is no longer running it. I think I'm going to make a witches brew and just mix a hald a qt of everything. I'll get the best of all worlds. Demon is just like the rest of us. Just a car nut. What makes him better than anyone else? I think I'm going to trust the guy as Pete said that builds my transmission. No only builds it but also worked for Ford developing the CDW-27. I'll hang from his left/right nut what have you thanks. He has the schooling and many years of experience that almost everyone on here lacks. I don't see anyone on her tearing down tranny's on a daily basis and noting what fluid was ran.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
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Originally posted by RogerB:
I missed that part of my 96 manual last night, but it's also out of date.
I'm frankly not interested in anybody's "recommendations" right now. (Well, I appreciate them, but I've already read them.) I'm looking for documentation.
Either way, I'll be changing my fluid as soon as I can, as it is nearing 75k on the original fluid. I would just like to see what the factory perceives as a valid reason to service.
[rant]As for "recommendations," I've been involved in these discussions before with Terry, and when I asked for clarification from Terry on whether or not to use the FM with the honey, I got nothing but silence. Maybe he felt he already answered that somewhere else, or he was sick of saying it, or he just didn't see it. Then, IIRC, I got some other yahoos chiming in, and there are still people "over there" recommending ZL-7 with everything. Meanwhile I've got the service tech at the local dealer telling me there's no reason to ever service the MTX.  I've had it with the circle jerk. Lemmings, my arse. The 3 or 4 people I respect the most can't even agree on stuff around here, and half the time we get "Oops...that wasn't right" a couple years later. It pays to be slow to act, sometimes, and this thread is proof of that.
Sorry. Had to vent. [/rant]
What do you want documentation on? We already know what the manual states. I think even VW's say no service to trannys and coolant. I'm not keeping mine in my car forever. Things age and break down. Tranny fluid isn't miracle fluid. Just like oil should be changed every 3-5k. Roger you're a smart guy. When do you think it would be time to change out? In the 30-50k range. That's maybe 3 times in the vehicles average life. You don't need Ford to tell you what common sense tells you. And who said 'oops that wasn't right'? Not Terry. He's said the same thing for years.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by rkneeshaw3.0:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
What happens when someone cracks their tranny open after using MTL, and it's clean?
Mark
You mean besides Tom & myself already having done that and proved that it's not the MTL fluid. 
Oh that's right. We don't count because Terry said it's the MTL because he found it on 2 MTXs that ran MTL for a short period but had a neglected history. That's logical... 
That's not even taking into consideration all the other data we've collected against this unsubstanciated theory. It is just a weak theory folks because there is absolutely "no proof" it's the MTL's fault. Yet there are countless reasons it's not the MTL and countless reasons why you shouldn't add FM to the fluid (expecially POS ATF) yet next to no one listens.
It gets to a point where, "what's the damn point! Nearly everyone is a closed minded lap dog!" 
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: May 2000
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
You mean besides Tom & myself already having done that and proved that it's not the MTL fluid.
Oh that's right. We don't count because Terry said it's the MTL because he found it on 2 MTXs that ran MTL for a short period but had a neglected history. That's logical...
Well as stated previously in this thread. How many ppl are running the crap? A very small percentage. How many go off to Terry to be repaired on top of that? An even smaller percentage. The only ones that he's torn down that run MTL have proof that they have oxidation, wear issues and sludge.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
That's not even taking into consideration all the other data we've collected against this unsubstanciated theory.
And what data is that? I missed the pictures.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
It gets to a point where, "what's the damn point! Nearly everyone is closed minded!"
Pot calling kettle black.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Why do you think I've been against the additive for years???
Well since MTL has FM's in it already why aren't you against it?
Still haven't heard this answered. I like how certain points are skipped over.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by RogerB:
I missed that part of my 96 manual last night, but it's also out of date.
I'm frankly not interested in anybody's "recommendations" right now. (Well, I appreciate them, but I've already read them.) I'm looking for documentation.
Either way, I'll be changing my fluid as soon as I can, as it is nearing 75k on the original fluid. I would just like to see what the factory perceives as a valid reason to service.
[rant]As for "recommendations," I've been involved in these discussions before with Terry, and when I asked for clarification from Terry on whether or not to use the FM with the honey, I got nothing but silence. Maybe he felt he already answered that somewhere else, or he was sick of saying it, or he just didn't see it. Then, IIRC, I got some other yahoos chiming in, and there are still people "over there" recommending ZL-7 with everything. Meanwhile I've got the service tech at the local dealer telling me there's no reason to ever service the MTX. I've had it with the circle jerk. Lemmings, my arse. The 3 or 4 people I respect the most can't even agree on stuff around here, and half the time we get "Oops...that wasn't right" a couple years later. It pays to be slow to act, sometimes, and this thread is proof of that.
Sorry. Had to vent. [/rant]
What do you want documentation on? We already know what the manual states. I think even VW's say no service to trannys and coolant. I'm not keeping mine in my car forever. Things age and break down. Tranny fluid isn't miracle fluid. Just like oil should be changed every 3-5k. Roger you're a smart guy. When do you think it would be time to change out? In the 30-50k range. That's maybe 3 times in the vehicles average life. You don't need Ford to tell you what common sense tells you. And who said 'oops that wasn't right'? Not Terry. He's said the same thing for years.
The Ford service interval. The outdated manual says what it says. It's not the current standard for fluid, either.
Yeah, I'm a smart guy, but I have almost 75k on the original fluid, because my manual says it's OK. Because the local Ford service guy, who I know is always trying to sell unnecessary service, recommends against it. Lots of different cars out there with different service intervals and fluids. "Conventional wisdom" is often wrong. Nevertheless, knowing that the Ford spec is the honey by itself, I figure I can't go wrong with a drain and fill using the spec'd fluid. Yes, my previous cars had a 30k service interval on the tranny, but cars are coming from the factory now with full synthetic lubes and "sealed" cases. All my old cars used 30W motor oil in the tranny. Obviously a different ball game.
Terry learns just like the rest of us. Maybe his stance has been firm on the MTX fill, but he has made mistakes in the past on other things, or, at least admitted to discovering new knowledge that made his "old knowledge" obsolete. It happens to the best of us, and the best of us admit it and move on.
Of course, Ford has never come out (AFAIK) with a replacement interval for the waterpump, or a less-than-100k-mile tune-up recommendation, either, so I know this is probably a long shot.
Todd, I appreciate your position, but you obviously don't possess the documentation I'm looking for (if it even exists). All I'm asking is that if anyone has access to it, and knows it's current, please share.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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*deleated by Pole120*
Last edited by pole120; 09/15/05 05:51 PM.
99 SE V6\5spd - 156 HP\157 TQ 15.166-90.84
Totaled 02/12/06
99 SVT # 1571 - 175 HP\153 TQ 14.999-91.88
Born 3/24/99 Reborn 3/18/06
Pietenpol Racing Technologies project vehicle
90 Festiva L 5spd, Blue(not for long), 103k
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,141
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by pole120:
all i know after reading as much of this as i could, is that my upcoming fluid change will involve 3 qts of Penzoil Syncromesh......
And why would that be? Because Demon is running it? Do your own research. He said he did his research on MTL. Must be great stuff since he is no longer running it. I think I'm going to make a witches brew and just mix a hald a qt of everything. I'll get the best of all worlds. Demon is just like the rest of us. Just a car nut. What makes him better than anyone else? I think I'm going to trust the guy as Pete said that builds my transmission. No only builds it but also worked for Ford developing the CDW-27. I'll hang from his left/right nut what have you thanks. He has the schooling and many years of experience that almost everyone on here lacks. I don't see anyone on her tearing down tranny's on a daily basis and noting what fluid was ran.
Originally posted by todras:
I think everything is laid out for others to judge.
and my decision is to run the Syncromesh......i've made my own judgement\decision as you've suggested i do.
edit:
I just picked up a ford TSB that states
*portions omitted*
"the new fluid (XT-M5-QS(1 L/quart)) is fully compatable wit hearlier (1995-2000 model year) transaxles and fluid. It is recomended that this new synthetic fluid(XT-M5-QS(1 L/quart)) be used exclusively in all model year MTX-75 transaxles when filling a full drqained unit, or when toppin off fluid level."
one question, there is no mentiuon of a "friction modifier", and can't recall what i all read.
is it not needed as opposed to what was stated earlier??
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Syncromesh works perfectly as is while Ford's needs the LSD additive. Advantage Syncromesh.
99 SE V6\5spd - 156 HP\157 TQ 15.166-90.84
Totaled 02/12/06
99 SVT # 1571 - 175 HP\153 TQ 14.999-91.88
Born 3/24/99 Reborn 3/18/06
Pietenpol Racing Technologies project vehicle
90 Festiva L 5spd, Blue(not for long), 103k
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,475
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by todras:
I like how certain points are skipped over.
It's nice isnt it. Did you miss this one:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
What happens when someone cracks their tranny open after using MTL, and it's clean?
Mark
[image]
You mean besides Tom & myself already having done that and proved that it's not the MTL fluid.
So two people with MTL & Buildup in the trans. Two People without. NO CHEMICAL RESULTS YET stating that the buildup IS IN FACT DRIECTLY CAUSED BY MTL. Wow that's highly conclusive isnt it.
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