Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Transaxle Watch out

I just noticed that I had a typo (I know, I have a lot of them). I typed Fod Honey instead of Ford Honey. The post was so big that the system did not allow me to edit it.

Like I said much earlier, this thread has taken on a life of it's own.

I really don't have more to say on my end. I think everything is laid out for others to judge. I'm just going to post this though.

Is that the same cougar manual that has all the misprints and errors in it?


Yes it is true, ever heard of a Cougar-S? They were going to use a bigger and better engine in it, maybe it was the SVT engine , no wait I think it was supposed to be the 3.0.
Whatever. Anyway the manual actually had all the stats printed up with that information and they never made ANY of it. It was a mistake.
I've never said anything about the friction modifier yet but I wouldn't trust ANYTHING in those cougar manuals as there were too many discrepancies.
Don't believe it? Ask around.

BTW, there are many different friction modifiers but MTL and certain ATF's are designed with them in mind.
That is a big difference then adding something meant for a Gear Oil in a rear end to an ATF based lube.
I'm not saying it is wrong...yet. I'm just pointing out that this wouldn't be a good leg to argue from.

for the record, both my 99 and my 2000 contour owners manual say the same thing.

That link won't work for me. Can someone cut and paste it here?

Having followed this thread since it's inception and reading all the information presented here, I felt like it was time to add to the discussion (hopefully something worthwhile). Fortunately for me I work with a 100 or so engineers who develop powertrain components (read transmissions) for earth moving equipment (Cat if you want to know). I talked to a very well respected individual who is something of an expert on fluids. I explained the premise behind this thread (the FM and EP additives) and learned this from him.

FM additives RARELY (and he emphasized rarely) are used to increase the coefficient of friction of an oil. The FM's are PRIMARILY used to decrease friction. The coefficient of friction of an oil is a function of the base stock - trying to increase the friction is difficult at best.

So why use FM's? Well, for an automatic transmission it depends on how you design your trans. John Deere, for instance, likes to run a slippery fluid; i.e. lots of FM. So how do they pass all the torque through the clutches? They oversize things; heavier springs, larger diameter clutch discs, etc. Their philosophy is that their trans. will work w/ any fluid. Cat is a little different. We tend to make things small to maximize power density. Therefore we typically do not put FM's in our transmission oils. In passenger car automatic transmissions, the manufacturer uses FM's to balance torque transmission and the smoothness of the shift. Since each manufacturer doesn't design their transmission the same way, it is highly likely and probable that different fluids (with different amounts/types of FM) are required to produce the coefficient of friction that works best in their particular transmissions. Too slick of an oil can cause premature wear due to excessive slippage; to sticky and shifting may be harsh. Based upon this information I read that the FM does NOT help the syncros bite better (yes, it was probably said some time ago, but I'm saying it again). If it does anything at all I could see some benefit of FM's with LSD's (depending upon the design). I don't believe based upon what I have been told that the FM is needed. Todras' post of the Cougar owners manual muddies the water on this one.

The EP additives work by essentially corroding the surface of contacting parts when the film pressures become high. Don't ask me why/how but the wearing of the surface due to corrosion helps reduce friction (if u want to know more PM me and I'll get more specific). So it would not be a surprise to see that if a transmission used a fluid with EP additives a build up of wear debris in the case were observed. Without a filter in the trans. to catch the debris, it is not surprising therefore to see the sludge/debris build up. If Redline MTL has EP additives then it is possible that we could see some corrosion effects. If Terry and/or Ford say we don't need the EP additives, then I would question why I should MTL.

I went to Redline's website and read the info on MTL, and NO WHERE does it state that they add a FM. Redline web page They simply state they have a higher coefficient of friction than comparable fluids. Interestingly if I'm not mistaken, I saw some posts where it was stated that Redline did not recommend MTL for this (Contour) application. Anyone know why? I found another web page where they recommend D4ATF plus 1.5 oz.s of Redline limited slip friction modifier. Are you as confused as I am now?

What am I gonna do? I don't know yet. I just put MTL in my trans. 5 months ago, but I'm questioning whether or not I should change. I'm leaning toward the Ford honey or maybe the RP syncromax. Maybe the Pennzoil synchromesh, too. More research for me now. If we seriously want some highly technical info, I will contact some friends at Lubrizol (add pack mfr). I'm rambling - I'll shut up.

Flame suit on