|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 980
Veteran CEG\'er
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 980 |
Originally posted by todras:
Terry has also sent samples off of each of the lubes to the labs so even more evidence can be shown about the great additives MTL has in it.
OK, it's kinda obvious now who is right and who is wrong. I say this thread should be locked down at least until we get the lab stuff back...
2000 Mystique LS
Duratec 2.5L MTX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065 |
I'm really upset seeing this. I was there and when we pulled it open I was disgusted. I spent a pretty penny on this and it looks worse than the flippin oil pan I pulled off my 2.5
Pictures are worth 1000 words.
PS todd...terry said to run straight ATF for a couple of days. Drain it hot and let it drain overnight...then run the Ford honey or Mobil 1. Just so you guys know terry gets .000000000000000000000000001% of all sales from these products. 
Starjamir the uper right is the bell housing side...the first upper left is the bell housing side zetec and the lower left is the gear set side of a rod shift.
Terry knows his [censored].
Rawburt was prob the not the best messenger for this information based on some of his CEG history. To be honest I thought it was hooey just because it came from him. No offense Raw...but well sorry.
I'm 100% with terry on this one guys. I know of a few other guys here in MI that will agree with me. 
Sorry for a not so great write up...I'll be spending the rest of my night in the library and I don't have time to write novel. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,012
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,012 |
wow! it is great having terry around. there is no replacement for his experience and knowledge.
Oo (xxx)oO
o xxxxxxxx o
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037 |
Baaaa.
I didn't do quite as hardcore a flush procedure as Terry suggested, but I only had the MTL in for the summer. I think it'll be OK. Thanks for the research.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065 |
Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
Baaaa.
I didn't do quite as hardcore a flush procedure as Terry suggested, but I only had the MTL in for the summer. I think it'll be OK. Thanks for the research.
Nothing is perm. damaged. Additionally...my trans did seem to shift better with the old 'cocktail' and before the rebuild. I never ran MTL b4 the rebuild.
Originally posted by 96_98_SE:
I've got my MTX opened up and sitting on my workbench right now. I changed out the stock ATF at around 40K miles and started using the Mobil-1 cocktail, draining and refilling about every 25K miles. The transmission, now at 112K, looks absolutely spotless inside and there were only a couple TINY metal flakes on the collection magnet. Looking over the internal components, it's hard to see any indications of wear.  Even at 112K on an almost 10-year old transmission, it still shifts great (i.e. no syncro problems).
I've got 3 bottles of Redline MTL ready to dump in after my Torsen/Fork install, but after reading this dialogue, I'm inclined to continue using the Mobil-1 cocktail until the 'MTX Heavyweights' duke out the MTL issue some more. In the meantime, I'll hold onto my bottles of MTL.
I agree that it's hard to blame 2 transmission failures on MTL, considering that the fluid change history was unknown. If you don't keep the fluid fresh, it's gonna come back to bite you, no matter what fluid you're using. 
This is very interesting too. Don't run the MTL. After seeing my BRAND NEW trans in this state. I'm so miffed right now. 
Miffed at myself for not running what Terry told me to, but at the same time...I suppose it is good that I did because we now have pretty solid PROOF of what it does. Idk why Terry just doesn't endorse the MTL to increase his sales. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,045
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,045 |
that trans that ran the honey is real purtty. i now understand that this is not a viscosity thing but rather a lube content thing. thanks for the information. demon, warmonger, comments?
00 black/tan svt, #2052 of 2150, born 2/1/00
formerly known as my csvt
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King, Jr.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
You know what Todd? You got an issue with something I say you should approach it in a fair reply to my post, i.e. the metal issue; not bury it amongst a bunch of pictures. Otherwise, I would use PMs as I did when I first tried to point out that there was a lack of objectivity here. Obviously you weren't going to be objective about this in the first place so I wasted my time in the pm and I'm probably wasting my time here now. I haven't ever had a problem with you before and I don't intend to start it now.
However I have some questions:
1.)If that one transmission used Ford Honey, WHY IS THE FLUID ON THE BEARING RACE FRIGGIN RED?
2.)Why on the one with the straight ATF are there wipe marks on the inside of the case?
3.)Also, rainbow coloration on the gear teeth? I'll have to see a much better photo than that one before I agree that it is there as we can't really see it; I'll also have to see a photo of it before it was rebuilt by Terry to insure that it wasn't preexisting, meaning caused by the usage and fluid formerly used before he worked on it. That coloration won't go away so it would have stayed there up to now even if it was preexisting.
You know I've opened up many transmissions and unless the transmission was recently cleaned...less than a year on the fluid, they all have that same slightly dark residue, many about as bad. My factory fill had the same crap with almost as much sludge but with a stock differential!
After 1.5 years of MTL I had minor build up on the magnet though I did flush my trans after break-in.
I'll admit that the sludge on his magnet is a bit excessive for a year!
However, I will also be the first to point out that it looks like that is the same fluid it was broken in with, meaning he never changed fluid after he broke in the new parts in the trans. Contrary to popular belief, NEW, friction based ATBs like Torsens and Quaifes are going to generate quite a bit of metal particles as those planetary gears start to wear down and smooth out.
He probably wouldn't get that kind of buildup on his transmission if it was properly flushed out after the break-in process. One reason it can get so bad is that all of the particles from the break in process will act as an abrasive over time, making more particles and increasing the wear.
If you OR Terry has an issue with me saying that the break in process will produce metal particulates AND that you will see the flake in the oil, then either you aren't quoting him correctly or you are both wrong. Don't forget that MY definition of metal flake and your/his definition of metal flake may not be equal. We aren't talking friggin nuggets here.
Now, all of that being said, I'm still open to seeing if the additives in Redline are problem causing. That is still apparently undecided as I can see two or three discrepancies just from the explanations and the photos.
I have nothing to gain by using or not using Redline. I just can't see what appears to be a great product by almost all accounts suddenly turned into a bad product by one opinion and no facts, or UNCONTROLLED conditions.
I'm going to invite one of the Redline engineers to view this topic and defend themselves.
What about the differential makers? Do they have an issue with redlines lubrication specs?
Crap, I wasted so much time addressing each and every possible source of error
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Redline MTL tech information/lube specs Chew on this for a while. I won't post links of all the positive usage reports from the internet for Redline MTL on transmissions using the same alloys and technologies as our beloved mtx-75. You people can search google for that. I did have a hard time finding negatives though.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065 |
I did flush it after the first 500 miles. And Terry told me that quaife didn't rec this type of fluid. I see this getting ugly and being an ego based argument about who has the bigger d!ck.
I watched Terry make a couple of swipes on the other two cases and I wasn't terribly concerned about it.
I was just typing to my Volvo buddy and he uses MTL religously in his cars:
DanGTO: i can probably join, and throw some [censored]
DanGTO: i know i have some, i have 2 other trannies apart, i wonder if i cleaned the shifter plates off
DanGTO: but the cause of trans failure was a tweaked housing due to the torque.
DanGTO: But, i could not believe what i saw
DanGTO: funny thing is
DanGTO: the volvo drain on the trans
DanGTO: is magnetic
DanGTO: and i found only a ton of sludge built on it
DanGTO: so it is true, that the mtl shifts metal with it.
DanGTO: hell, the other trans in it has redline now
DanGTO: my overdrive unit, which uses the fluid and a solenoid to work [electronic 5th] was full of crap on the filter as well.
DanGTO: moore black crap.
DanGTO: yet, every volvo shop swears by it.
War...as for the discoloration it was THERE, YOU HAVE MY WORD. As much rainbow as the city of Ferndale. 
War...when u say properly flush...you mean just an empty and a refill after break-in or is there a step I missed?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,387
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,387 |
Quote:
1.)If that one transmission used Ford Honey, WHY IS THE FLUID ON THE BEARING RACE FRIGGIN RED?
2.)Why on the one with the straight ATF are there wipe marks on the inside of the case?
3.)Also, rainbow coloration on the gear teeth? I'll have to see a much better photo than that one before I agree that it is there as we can't really see it; I'll also have to see a photo of it before it was rebuilt by Terry to insure that it wasn't preexisting, meaning caused by the usage and fluid formerly used before he worked on it. That coloration won't go away so it would have stayed there up to now even if it was preexisting.
As an objective 3rd party,
1. the transmission using honey did not appear to have any red atf.
2. He stated that in all fiarness he had wiped them lightly, but I do believe it would have taken quite a bit of cleaning to match pete's car, and it REALLY did not appear that they were thoroughly cleaned. Keep in mind that these transmissions had quite a bit more mileage.
3. I would agree with the statement that the discoloration could have been caused before, but it was blatant in person.
I also have to add that my initial reaction at seeing these pictures was that they did not do the difference between the transmissions justice.
98 3.0 svt: Sold
|
|
|
|
|
