|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by akrump47:
Originally posted by rkneeshaw3.0:
I'd like to see demon and terry discuss this for the benefit of everyone.
I'm guessing the sun will blow up before they have a public discussion for the benefit of everyone. 
I read Terry's thread and it's very interesting. Not to discredit Demon but Terry has alot more experience with the MTX-75 and especially with broken ones. 
What we really need is some sort of list/database of people who have opened up their transmissions, what parts were broken, what fluids were run and for how long, driving style, mileage, etc. I'm curious if Demon or others with the MTL fluid have opened up their boxes since running it. What is the condition of the Vs peope running ATF and friction modifier or Ford fluids.
Also people on this site have said not to run MTL if you have damaged transmission components, so that could be a factor too (perhaps componetnts were damaged but driveability symptoms wern't noticeable yet)
Hello!!!!!!
Is this the first post you've read in this forum? I've just had my trans open again and the MTL did not cause a problem. How many times have I posted my reviews AND shown pictures???
There is still plenty of friction in the diff with MTL to allow the ATB to work the way it was intended. I had enough conversations with Torsen engineers that I can safely say that lack of friction was NOT an issue!
I'm guessing years of poor maintenance was the issue. Running a batch of fluid to flush the transmission out is always a good idea on an unknown transmission like that. After all the worn material is flushed out then the new fluid can have a FAIR EVAKUATION.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by RawDirte':
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Anybody that doesn't know their own vehicle's maintenance history, shouldn't have much of a say in this. 
I'm thinking it's just coincidence that the diff blew in your tranny Robert. It's like buying a used car w/ 100k miles on it, immediately changing the oil, and the engine blowing up. Do you blame the Valvoline oil that you put in it? No, as you don't know what was put in it before. Until there is some significant data, showing that Redline MTL is the reason for your diff shattering, I don't think people should be so quick to jump to conclusions.
Mark
I have put almost 30k miles on it. And that is true, I do not know the previous maintenence records. That is completely out of my control. Thats why I kind of went crazy with it. No where did I say that the MTL is the reason why my diff went on me, and if I did say it... Let me take it back because I did not mean it.
I still think you guys are missing the point here. All you guys are hearing is what you want to hear... "If you use Redline MTL, then you will ruin your diff." NO, that is not what I said!!! When I switched to the MTL, i noticed metal shavings in the fluid when draining it. It was not much, but enough to show that there was wear. The mix of the MTL, and metallic flakes creating a paste DID NOT help my diff and a prolonged life. Upon cracking open my trans, that was found, significant and strange wear. Also found on other MTL users transmissions. These are not my grounds to stand up and preach about it. Go to FCO and read about it!
How about the fact that you never flushed the goopy fluid out the first time, changed fluid, then when the metal came out with the thinner/cleaner fluid you ended up blaming the new fluid for the fault of the old fluid and lack of maintenance????
Is this even remotely possible in any way in your mind??
Is it even remotely possible that your diff still would have blown if you had used ATF? Or that fresh clean ATF would have started to break up the sludge and flushed it out when you changed it???
Has this ever occured to you? C'mon, you posted the other stuff like it was fact....what about these questions???
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by JB1:
guys, what is this "EP" lube terry is talking about?
He is talking about extreme pressure additives (EP).
In a stock transmission there is no need for EP additives according to his explanation.
With a Torsen I have posteed that EP fluids will quiet the noise down that these diffs make. He's bascially saying I'm all wrong because the friction is what makes the diff work.
From a simple perspective, and it is not that simple, this might be true. That part that IS an issue is the Torque loads the transmission sees and the design range of the differential. The T2 was designed for a friggin Ford Focus, NOT a V6 contour!
This is directly from Torsen by the way.
This part is NOT from Torsen:
Simply put, friction is a product of the coefficients of static and dynamic friction multiplied by the Force applied, whether it be gravity or something else; along with a few other factors.
Simple math indicates that if the Force applied is 3 times HIGHER than that which the part was designed for would mean that the coefficient of friction doesn't have to be as high for the differential to operate the same way.
In fact you could say that it could be three times less and the product would still be within the design limits that would allow the diff to work.
In the meantime the high pressure additives will protect the gears from the excessive loads. I qualified this by saying "With High torque loads AND an ATB, use something with pressure additives" if you want to reduce the noise.
This won't hurt the differential at all and as long as the transmission shifts correctly, it shouldn't hurt anything else in the transmission either. It is the friction that allows the synchros to work and if the friction is still good enough that it shifts fine....Then how can pressure additives hurt when they will protect the gears BETTER from wear??
(assuming these are additives that specifically don't harm yellow metals)
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,760
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,760 |
Tom your starting to be like Greg, just plain ol' blunt...I like it. :-)
Ryan
Trollin!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 137
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 137 |
Redline MTL blew up my diff, I know this because I was thinking about putting it in when I started out hard and had excessive wheel hop. I should call up Redline and ask then to pay me for my repair costs. If the tranny fluid was what caused your problems the effected area would be dry, no fluid. I do not see how there could be a bearing in this tranny that is sealed enough to keep the fluid out. Can you post some pictures of the broken parts. I think that I will have to agree with Tom and Demon on this. If you do not know the condition of the tranny before you put the fluid in - you can not say that it contributed to the failure. When I say know the condition I mean you actually took the tranny apart - inspected everything - then put it back together correctly. Otherwise it was just wear and tear that killed it. The fluid change was just a coincidence. I just rebuilt my tranny w/ torsen and put MTL in it. If it blows up again and there is pastey residue on everything I will post pics and there might be a case. Otherwise I just did a bad job rebuilding it. Knock on wood. Just my little joke and thoughts on the matter.
1998 Contour SVT Black w/ Blue interior
Torsen LSD updated shiftforks
Lightened Flywheel, HD Drivelines
Optimized Thottle Body
2003 3.0L engine upgrade (Soon to be)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
This post with responses from the experts is making my head spin and my blood boil. Last I checked Terry wasn't getting any endorsement fees trying to sell everyone on Ford honey or Mobil 1. You guys can say what you want about him but he knows his sh!t. Who on here has torn down and rebuilt 100's of tranny's? That's right. NO ONE! He is telling everyone what his findings are. He benefits from none of it in these lube type matters. Hell if I were him I'd tell ppl to use MTL so their tranny will degrade quicker so he can make more $.  Robert is letting everyone know Terry's findings so lay off! The reason the MTL is not a lube I would use is shown in the following pictures.
This is what a stock diff. for those that don't know.
This diff/tranny above was run on MTL for 1 year. Notice the extreme spider gear wear?!! He's lucky the pin didn't go. Doesn't really matter since it's toast either way.
This is what Roberts parts looked like
Notice the normal diff. pin for comparison. Those 2 planet gears ride on the diff pin. Notice the 2 machined notches in the pin? That's where the planet gears sit. Those 2 notches are there for a reason. FOR LUBE FOR THE PLANET GEARS. NO LUBE THE GEARS WILL EAT THE PIN as shown here. The MTL is pasting up and not allowing for the lube to flow under the planet gears. Yes Roberts trans had 100k before he switched. Even with the stock fluid in there for so long it would not have caused this jind of damage. The Ford Honey was engineered my a German outfit specifically for the MTX-75. You think that Ford would just throw any off the shelf lube if they could? Sure would save them a boat load of $. The MTL has high EP. EP is found in axle lubes and smells just like rotten pu$$y. The same smell that is found in MTX-75's that run this. Demon & warmonger you really know your stuff in some aspects but in this repect I'm not agreeing one bit. I've never been so fired up over anything on this board before but I'm putting my foot down.
BOTTOM LINE. GO AHEAD AND USE MTL BUT DON'T COME BITCHING WHEN THINGS GO SOUTH. TERRY RECOMMENDS FORD HONEY OR MOBIL 1 WITH FRICTION MODIFIER. THE DIFF PIN IN THE PIC THAT IS STILL SOLID WAS OUT OF A TRANNY WITH MOBIL 1. WHATS A FEW EXTRA $ FOR FORD HONEY IN A $1000 TRANNY? ROBERTS TRANNY SAT IN THE DUNK TANK FOR 2.5 HRS TO GET THE RESIDUE OUT. A NORMAL TRANS. TAKES 1 HOUR!
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,033
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,033 |
i'm sure as hell switchin' fluids.
Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by warmonger:
Come on now. Terry is good at what he does but that doesn't mean he knows about redline or even cares to experiment with non ford products.
And why would he need to "experiment." A high dollar transmission is not something most ppl experiment with. Terry also recommends Mobil 1 if you hadn't heard. He recommends the honey first though. The reason is as stated in my previous post. This fluid is spec'd for the MTX-75. Their is a reason for that. You think Ford would go out and spend needless amounts of $ if it didn't need to? Engineers at Ford are probably there for a reason. Nah I'll just go out and buy my lube from a small company like Redline. Maybe use a lube that wasn't specifically designed for a Ford transmission. Sounds great!
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,238
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,238 |
Originally posted by G�¨t�£uck�¥151:
i'm sure as hell switchin' fluids.
Is that what you ask for at Ford. Just tell them you want 3 qts. of Ford Honey and a bottle of XL-7? Definitely changing mine asap. I noticed my trans was hard to get into 1st from a dead stop. So I tried the MTL, and it actually got worse. I thought it was just my syncros going. Now I hear this. 
-tropictour
2000 Contour SVT
Tropic Green
SHO Shop CAI
Bassani
1999 Contour SE
BAT Kit
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
todd
I'm sorry but those look just like previous blown or degraded stock diffs when used with stock fluid and some agressive driving. Nothing new about those pics at all to me.
I haven't done hundreds but I've been into a few and I HAVE been into hundreds of transmissions when I was a mechanic...as well as engines from all different types of manufacturers. That is how I made my living for 8-10 years!
This is just turning into sensationalism now.
I am going to agree to dissagree and bow out of this argument now. I'll look again if some proof were offered in the future.
Tom
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
