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Originally posted by Th_m_s:
Life is fragile so it seems like a higher power made the earth with the things that are needed to survive (the atmosphere, food, air and etc.).
That's basically the rationale behind Intelligent Design. I don't have any problem with people who personally believe that. Just don't pretend it's science. Any ideology that states "whatever we don't know about the beginning of the universe must be attributable to some higher power that we'll never understand" precludes one from studying the subject further. In other words, it gives people an excuse not to have to think any further. That's pretty much the opposite of science.
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Originally posted by Viss1:
Originally posted by Th_m_s:
Life is fragile so it seems like a higher power made the earth with the things that are needed to survive (the atmosphere, food, air and etc.).
That's basically the rationale behind Intelligent Design. I don't have any problem with people who personally believe that. Just don't pretend it's science. Any ideology that states "whatever we don't know about the beginning of the universe must be attributable to some higher power that we'll never understand" precludes one from studying the subject further. In other words, it gives people an excuse not to have to think any further. That's pretty much the opposite of science.
God's knowledge and understanding would be infinite, if there is a God. People's knowledge and understanding is limited. I'm not an extremely religious person but I believe there has to be a higher power.
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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
BTW, to many: Muslim God = Christian God. One in the same.
But they are quite different! Can you convince a muslim that his god is a triune god who came to Earth in the form of Jesus Christ (Who IS God), and died for our sins? Try that, then tell me that they are the same God.
EDIT: Wasn't necessarily referring to you TourDeForce. I've seen this said at least 3 time in this thread.
Last edited by TBoomer; 01/22/06 12:55 AM.
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Originally posted by JEDsContour:
I know thatâ??s not the case among the majority of our population, but by chance and by choice, as an adult I just havenâ??t hung around with enough fuzzy-headed ignoramuses to have developed the skills required to communicate with them.
 So what you're saying is that you're so intellectually superior that you are incapable of communicating with 'fuzzy-headed ignoramuses'. Well, at least you made me laugh. 
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
In your case I just donâ??t see anything to gain in â??debatingâ? you. One can only discuss inanities for so long. I feel some small desire to educate you, but by and large it is too much work and you do not want to learn.
You're yet to say anything of substance in this discussion, other than to use 500 words to say that you're too smart and don't want to discuss anything with people that don't share your worldview. I haven't seen you invalidate anything I've said in this thread with any kind of reason or thought. Yet, you still claim intellectual superiority. 
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Originally posted by TBoomer:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
BTW, to many: Muslim God = Christian God. One in the same.
But they are quite different! Can you convince a muslim that his god is a triune god who came to Earth in the form of Jesus Christ (Who IS God), and died for our sins? Try that, then tell me that they are the same God.
That's because Muhammad had one of those cool guy conversations with Allah (i.e. "revalation"), who told him what was hip at the time...
That's where the differences come up! Before then, they were the same from what I understand.
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Originally posted by Davo:
You're yet to say anything of substance in this discussion, other than to use 500 words to say that you're too smart and don't want to discuss anything with people that don't share your worldview. I haven't seen you invalidate anything I've said in this thread with any kind of reason or thought. Yet, you still claim intellectual superiority.
I'm not saying your stupid. I am saying you have little to no background in a subject you've decided to opine with such certainty.
Let me give you a hint: Whenever you start your argument with something like "Here's what I think science is..." you have immediately labeled yourself a you-know-what.
Statements like:
Quote:
Seriously though, I don't know why people like ODC think Creationists are the ones that should accept evolutionists' points. Evolution involves the same sorts of things that you can't see or touch or hear that Creationism involves. If you've actually seen evolution happen, then I want to take a couple puffs from your pipe. I'd like the same for Creationists. Both theories of our existence involve a level of faith, and for some reason those that construct this faith around religion are casted off as the wackos.
Scream out that you have made no serious attempt at all to research this subject.
While I don't want to seem 'mean' to you, it is the truth.
Davo, Iâ??m not claiming to be â??smarterâ?? than you â??? though very likely I am. I am going to state that Iâ??ve (almost certainly) been a working engineer and scientist for longer than youâ??ve been alive. On a day-to-day basis now I am doing work in a field that is almost entirely derived from the theory of evolution that is so disparaged here. I understand the mechanisms of evolution on a detailed non-biological level on par or better than most experts in the field. The work Iâ??m doing now can be loosely categorized as â??genetic algorithmâ? and â??neural net.â? Software that learns and adapts. Programs and systems that improve themselves.
Evolution is one of the most basic features of our universe. It is so well substantiated and proven that people who question its existence can most kindly be described as â??silly.â??
When I first started posting in this thread, I did so mostly for the novelty of arguing with people who actually doubted whether evolution occurs at all. A weird and alien way of thinking.
The novelty has worn off. This is just not interesting anymore. It is unsettling in the way that having a conversation with a tragically brain damaged person would be. Great sympathy for the individual, but nothing to be gained by staying on.
Davo, I am not going to post here anymore. In fact I'm not even going to open this thread again. Count on it.
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Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Evolution is one of the most basic features of our universe. It is so well substantiated and proven that people who question its existence can most kindly be described as â??silly.â??
Yes, that must be why its called the "theory" of evolution and not the "fact" of evolution. 
- Tim
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Evolution is one of the most basic features of our universe. It is so well substantiated and proven that people who question its existence can most kindly be described as â??silly.â??
Yes, that must be why its called the "theory" of evolution and not the "fact" of evolution.
Gravity is a theory too...
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Originally posted by Big Daddy Kane:
Originally posted by TBoomer:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
BTW, to many: Muslim God = Christian God. One in the same.
But they are quite different! Can you convince a muslim that his god is a triune god who came to Earth in the form of Jesus Christ (Who IS God), and died for our sins? Try that, then tell me that they are the same God.
That's because Muhammad had one of those cool guy conversations with Allah (i.e. "revalation"), who told him what was hip at the time...
That's where the differences come up! Before then, they were the same from what I understand.
No.
Muhammed gave the name Al-Lah to the same god that the Jews named YHWH, and the Christians named (arrogantly if you ask me) God.
Muhammed preached that they were the same god. All belief was placed in the same entity. That God/YHWH/Al-Lah was so far removed from humanity that he was truly inconceivable. And don't start quoting obscure passages from the Koran to prove Muslims as evil. The Koran was NEVER meant to be written and read. It was to be spoken. The tone of the words, the sound of it all is all a part of the message, and it does *NOT* translate well to written Arabic, let alone English.
Islam was also the first monotheistic religion that held women in a position of respect, let alone power. It was also stated that one could NOT convert to Islam because it was considered a sin against the person's original concept of God. The people who have bastardized the Koran and Muhammed's teaching are no better than the Christians who have bastardized the Bible to inflict their myopic POV and lack of understanding onto people's lives. From the KKK to the Pro-Lifers to the anti- gay movement, it's all done in what they interpret to be God's word in the Bible. Which was written primarly by who? The fanatics.
I highly recommend A History of God for any of you who have ever questioned faith, and have wondered where it all began.
I was also born a Catholic, went to a "nondenominational" parochial school for nine years. Went to church. Was baptized, received communion. But it NEVER made sense to me. There were far too many contradictions. What contradictions? 1. Confession is not necessary. 2. If God is perfect, why has he changed so much over the years? From being a punishing force to being a loving caring force? Makes no sense. 3. The Bible makes no mention of dinosaurs. Why? I presume they hadn't discovered their existence yet. We've *proven* that dinosaurs existed before man. And it was more than 6 days before man. 4. If God was infallible, why are so many punished for doing no wrong? Why would he condemn all of us (original sin) when his son was sacrificed to put us all in a perpetual state of grace if we simply believed in him and lived according to his rules? And I learned this by the time I was 12.
I simply stopped believing when it stopped making sense. I learned to believe in MYSELF. To believe in the physical world around me. Do I believe in God? Not the way a lot of you would like. Do I believe in some sort of higher power? Sure. Fate, karma, whatever you want to believe in. I believe in being a good person, and punishing those who would do harm to others. I believe in the basic concept of ALL religion- don't be an a-hole.
Do I think we're descended from monkeys? Eh. I dunno. I think we're 95% similar. But not descended from them. I believe we are another species altogether. But we have evolved over the last few thousand years to be who and what we are now.
And while we're at it, I ask a simple question-
Why is it that when an athlete wins, he thanks God, but doesn't blame him when he loses?
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Originally posted by JEDsContour:
your stupid.
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Davo, Iâ??m not claiming to be â??smarterâ?? than you â??? though very likely I am.
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Statements like:
Quote:
Seriously though, I don't know why people like ODC think Creationists are the ones that should accept evolutionists' points. Evolution involves the same sorts of things that you can't see or touch or hear that Creationism involves. If you've actually seen evolution happen, then I want to take a couple puffs from your pipe. I'd like the same for Creationists. Both theories of our existence involve a level of faith, and for some reason those that construct this faith around religion are casted off as the wackos.
Scream out that you have made no serious attempt at all to research this subject.
I don't see any problem with what I said above. Your continuing failure to counter the points in the passage leads me to believe that what I said flies in the face of everything you stand for. And as we will see, I'm right...
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Davo, Iâ??m not claiming to be â??smarterâ?? than you â??? though very likely I am. I am going to state that Iâ??ve (almost certainly) been a working engineer and scientist for longer than youâ??ve been alive. On a day-to-day basis now I am doing work in a field that is almost entirely derived from the theory of evolution that is so disparaged here. I understand the mechanisms of evolution on a detailed non-biological level on par or better than most experts in the field. The work Iâ??m doing now can be loosely categorized as â??genetic algorithmâ? and â??neural net.â? Software that learns and adapts. Programs and systems that improve themselves.
So if you're smarter than me because you've worked as an engineer longer than I've been alive, how can my ideas and thoughts offend your life's work so deeply? I figure you've had this debate many times before and your responses would be well-thought out and meaningful, yet all you can talk about is how much smarter you are than everyone else. The purest form of self-aggrandizing is thinking one can even come close to understanding our existence. Since you practice this above, I can only conclude that you are either perpetually stoned or clinically insane.
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Evolution is one of the most basic features of our universe. It is so well substantiated and proven that people who question its existence can most kindly be described as â??silly.â??
Again, that the Earth was flat and that the Earth was the center of the universe was so well-substantiated and proven at one point or another. For someone who claims to be such an important part of the scientific community, you don't know the history of science for Jack Schitt.
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
When I first started posting in this thread, I did so mostly for the novelty of arguing with people who actually doubted whether evolution occurs at all. A weird and alien way of thinking.
The novelty has worn off. This is just not interesting anymore. It is unsettling in the way that having a conversation with a tragically brain damaged person would be. Great sympathy for the individual, but nothing to be gained by staying on.
And I came in here to help people such as yourself understand that there are people on the other side of the debate that think you're as big a crackpot as you think they are. I will accept your non-response to said attempts as evidence of my success.
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Davo, I am not going to post here anymore. In fact I'm not even going to open this thread again. Count on it.
I hope you don't run when posed with alternate worldviews in your personal and professional career.
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