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#1359957 08/12/05 10:53 PM
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Hi, I got my CSVT a few weeks ago and after hearing about the oil starvation problem I figured I'd play it safe and buy an accusump kit, from my research I have gathered that I need the 20-25PSI EPC Valve, since the duratec's oil pump at idle pumps about that (20psi) is this correct?

Also I'm not completly sure about which oil filter adapter I should use, the one with only one port which would go directly to the accusump valve, or the one with two ports (in & out) and set it up with a one way check valve and a "T" adapter... or maybe even tap into the oil cooler line that the csvt is supposed to have? I'm not sure if that is even possible, so, if anyone knows how should I set it up and is willing to share some light over here I would really apreciate it.

Thanks!

JyYyM

#1359958 08/13/05 12:33 AM
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00 black/tan svt, #2052 of 2150, born 2/1/00 formerly known as my csvt "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King, Jr.
#1359959 08/13/05 01:08 AM
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Sorry I missed that one while searching...

#1359960 08/13/05 02:54 AM
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Thanks for the link, everything is clear now... well almost...

With the normal electric valve, the accumulator will hold 1.5qt (granted that it's the 1.5qt one) regardless the preassure? or will the amount of oil held in the accumulator will vary accordingly to the preassure in the system?

I ask this because I don't know if I should get the normal electric valve or the EPC one with the preassure sensor, which if I understand correctly will release the oil only when the preasure drops beyond the specified value (20psi in this case) but, the preasure in the accumulator will be higher, around 50psi.

Am I correct?

Thanks again!

#1359961 08/13/05 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by JyYyM:
Thanks for the link, everything is clear now... well almost...

With the normal electric valve, the accumulator will hold 1.5qt (granted that it's the 1.5qt one) regardless the preassure? or will the amount of oil held in the accumulator will vary accordingly to the preassure in the system?

I ask this because I don't know if I should get the normal electric valve or the EPC one with the preassure sensor, which if I understand correctly will release the oil only when the preasure drops beyond the specified value (20psi in this case) but, the preasure in the accumulator will be higher, around 50psi.

Am I correct?

Thanks again!





With the standard electric valve the actual volume of oil in the accumulator varies dynamically (sp?) as the system pressure varies.

With Accusump's EPC valve the accumulator holds as much as the system can pump into it at opperating temperature*, and holds the oil there until a pressure drop is detected at which point the valve opens.


*unfortunately the volume of oil in the accumulator will still vary even with the EPC valve, since as the engine oil warms-up thusly thinning out, oil pressure will be lower than at start-up, so the system's ability to over come the air chamber's pressure is reduced.

My point is that it is uncertain if the volume rating of the accumulator is computed when the system is at 1psi or 100psi, or somewhere in between.

Either way, the higher the system pressure immediately prior to a pressure drop, the greater potential oil volume exists in reserve.





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#1359962 08/13/05 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by my csvt:
see if this thread helps





great to see my thread still making rounds.... one of these days I'll have to actually finish the full how-to pictorial write-up I've been working on......


87 Mustang GT 5.0L TURBO
#1359963 08/13/05 09:07 AM
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I see, just as I suspected... so, in retrospective, would you suggest spending the 33 extra bucks for the EPC valve? or should I just get the normal valve? I think the extra $$ for the theorical added proteccion (higher volume in the sump) are worth it, but I would like to know what you think...

And in case I get the EPC, I should get the 20-25psi version right?


Thanks a lot!!

Jim

#1359964 08/13/05 04:44 PM
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Well, I'm not sure there is an easy answer to that.

When the car is cold, oil pressure will be up around 100psi, so naturally the system will fill the accumulator with a some volume of oil that reflects the position of the internal piston and the compression of the air chamber.

With the EPC valve, this volume can potentially be maintained as long as the system pressure does not drop below a certain point. However, in practice the idle pressure is low enought that the valve will open, and now you are limited to the capablities of the system to refill it. With warm/hot oil system pressure will only reach somewhere around 60psi at 5000rpm and around 80psi at 7000rpm. (if I remember correctly, it's been a while since I've driven my 'tour)

So... what we see here is that assuming you don't drive the car hard all the time, normal driving is only going to fill to a volume corresponding with < 60psi, and thusly when taking a right hand sweeper at a high enough rpm to cause pump cavitation (~4000+ rpm) the system's oil pressure and the pressure in reserve are going to be essentially the same.

My point: In theory, on a contour, the volume of oil in reserve will be nearly equal with either valve, at the time of typical system pressure loss. Personally, I see no benefit in using an EPC valve on a contour, on a performance car with a race pump pushing higher psi's at lower rpms yes. There is the potential to have more oil in reserve, but only enough to compress the air chamber an additional few psi during normal operation, which will be a minimal amount.

If using the EPC I'd say yes, you the 20-25psi would be best for use on a contour.

*personal opinion warning - might be wrong* I believe that the EPC may actually be more dangerous to use than the standard electric. heres why:

Say you are using an EPC valve that opens at 25psi, and you are taking a right hand sweeper at 4500prm, so system pressure is about 55psi. Typically, the rule of thumb is that you should have 10psi of pressure for every 1000rpm in order to maintain a sufficient oil barrier between moving parts (ie rods and rod bearings) thus far our example is above optimum, now oil pickup looses submerission, pressure drops to basically Zero (normal contour problem) at this point the EPC sensor triggers the opening of the valve, valve opens, oil repressurizes the hose, then the engine.
Comare to same situation, but standard valve, pressure drops, oil flow referses direction in hose, engine has oil.

Although not much, and quite probably insignificant, the EPC valve has the potential to introduce a delay in response, since the sensor must detect the pressure drop, open the valve probably not even 1/5 of a second, but then the oil reserve must also account for the fact that during that 1/5 of a second oil will have been draining out of the hose thanks to gravity.

As I stated before, this is my own personal opinion, and it may be inaccurate, not to mention the time needed to open the valve may not make any noticable difference, these are just my thoughts on the matter.



Accumulator Operation Diagram


87 Mustang GT 5.0L TURBO
#1359965 08/13/05 08:39 PM
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JyYyM Offline OP
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Wow, thanks, that really sounds logical, now I think maybe it's not the best idea to use the EPC...

One final question, what are the benefints of going the Hex pluged holes installation route versus the oil filter adapter route? the filter one seems less complicated but I'm sure there's a "but" somewhere... what's your opinion there?

Thank you very mucho for your posts, it has been really helpful.

JYyYm

#1359966 08/13/05 09:35 PM
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The hex plug route vs. the sandwhich adapter depends upon if your car is an SVT or not. The SVT has an oil cooler whereas the other models do not. This is the biggest deciding factor, because there is not enough space to have the cooler, sandwich adaper and oil filter on an SVT so the installation is limited to the hex plug methood.

If your car is a non-SVT it's personal preference, if you have an SVT, gotta go to the hex plug.


87 Mustang GT 5.0L TURBO
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