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Who said you're assuming what the Koran says? I didn't

I know that the Koran specifically says that no non-muslims can reside within the holy Arab Peninsula. Are we so arrogant that we should thumb our collective noses at their religion and stay there for almost 2 decades and get upset when they actually do something about it? Even France or the UK knew better than to place any military or mess with local politics there when splitting up the Ottoman Empire after WWI.

Is this what you're speaking of? If not, please enlighten me as to what you keep talking about. For someone who's studied the Koran as you have, it shouldn't be a problem to show your reference

I'm talking about Jihad, as in, to kill those who will not convert to Islam, which the Koran says to do. You and me included.

But, that's not what a jihad is. A jihad is a struggle or effort.

It only warrants a holy war against infedel armies when Islam has a threat and the previous reasons in my last post. The strongest/best (I may be a little biased here ) military of mostly Christians, residing within the exact place their holy book says for us not to is a direct slap in their face.

Luckily most Muslims are rational minded people, and don't see it as an occupation force or the like. But there are always the religious extremist that will rattle their saber, especially when you give them a reason to.

So then my understanding from what you said is that you do not believe the Koran says that is someone will not convert to Islam that the Muslim should kill that person?

Do you believe the Koran says that?

It's taken out of context, if it does say that. I have never heard of it, so please show me it if you can.

A jihad, in a holy war sense, should be defensive in nature to protect Islam. Also, the Koran specificly protects civillian "people of the book" (Jews and Christians) during war. OBL ignores many of the teachings of the Koran, and his radical stance shows.

OBL claims the US and it's allies have killed millions of Arab civillians and to know their pain, we have to taste the bitter fruit as they have. Not too far fetched, but it's sad his "holy war" is based on revenge.

Torment to Non-believers:
4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Islam Acceptable:
3.85: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers

No friends from outsiders
3.118: O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people; they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.


Friends with Jews, Christians
5.51: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

No friends with non believers
4.144: O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

No friends with non believers
3.28: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

No friends with parents/siblings if not believers
9.23: O you who believe! do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.

Fight non-believers
9.123: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Kill non-believers
4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Anti Jewish verses
5.82: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.

Smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers
8.12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Smite the neck of unbelievers
47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

Severe Punishment for atheists
10.4: To Him is your return, of all (of you); the promise of Allah (made) in truth; surely He begins the creation in the first instance, then He reproduces it, that He may with justice recompense those who believe and do good; and (as for) those who disbelieve, they shall have a drink of hot water and painful punishment because they disbelieved.

5.10: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject our communications, these are the companions of the name.

5.86: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the companions of the flame.

Severe Punishment for non-believers
22.19: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.

22.20: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.

22.21: And for them are whips of iron.

22.22: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning.

Severe Punishment for non-believers
72.23 : (It is) only a delivering (of communications) from Allah and His messages; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Apostle surely he shall have the fire of hell to abide therein for a long time.

98.6 : Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.

Threat of punishment for not going to war
9.38 : O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah's way, you should incline heavily to earth; are you contented with this world's life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world's life compared with the hereafter is but little.

9.39 : If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.

48.16 : Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.

OK, you've posted quotes of the Koran. To say they are taken out of context isn't something I can say for sure, as I have not read the Koran from cover to cover. Can you say for sure that they are not taken out of context?

But, I have friends that are Muslim and that goes against what most of those quotes say.

It's easy to take strange quotes like the landover baptist web site does of the Bible, and make Christians out to be odd or disgusting. I have a feeling that this is what's happening with the Koran.

Well you wont have to read the Koran from cover to cover to read the context they are in, just read the sections they are in. Why would I take it out of context? I have no reason to.

My whole point is that there are a lot of peaceful muslims out there. However, they either choose to ignore what their Koran says or they just flat out do not know what it says.