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Originally posted by Swazo:
1. Did you already forget about abortion clinic attackers/ bombers and even the Aryan Nation? They have their christian beliefs that they force upon the US with force.
I find it to be quite the paradox that you claim people are having Christianity forced upon them when you yourself are far from a Christian (and you aren't the only one).
Originally posted by Swazo:
They may not be AS crazy (or educated for that matter) so they don't take it to his level. I'm not trying to water down OBL or what he has done.
FINALLY.
Originally posted by Swazo:
2. Yeah, you're right davo. I bet he would've done the same exact thing if it was a Muslim sect being stomped out by the Feds. He just hated the Federal government and that's the ONLY reason he AND others did what they did 
I'd be willing to examine any proof you have that he murdered 168 people in the name of Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by Swazo:
3. I'm saying that you cannot blame Islam for what a sect does, just like you cannot blame Christianity for what a small number of them do (Abortion clinic attacks, OKC, or an actual church like the Aryan Nation). I wanted to show that no religion will do things like this, rational people simply are above things like this.
Are you calling religious people irrational? Nice of you to take the self-righteous sectarian ground here, it's very pretty and convenient.
Last edited by Davo; 08/04/05 09:57 PM.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Swazo:
Did you already forget about abortion clinic attackers/ bombers and even the Aryan Nation? They have their christian beliefs that they force upon the US with force.
1. I find it to be quite the paradox that you claim people are having Christianity forced upon them when you yourself are far from a Christian (and you aren't the only one).
Originally posted by Swazo:
They may not be AS crazy (or educated for that matter) so they don't take it to his level. I'm not trying to water down OBL or what he has done.
2. FINALLY.
Originally posted by Swazo:
Yeah, you're right davo. I bet he would've done the same exact thing if it was a Muslim sect being stomped out by the Feds. He just hated the Federal government and that's the ONLY reason he AND others did what they did
3. I'd be willing to examine any proof you have that he murdered 168 people in the name of Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by Swazo:
I'm saying that you cannot blame Islam for what a sect does, just like you cannot blame Christianity for what a small number of them do (Abortion clinic attacks, OKC, or an actual church like the Aryan Nation). I wanted to show that no religion will do things like this, rational people simply are above things like this.
4. Are you calling religious people irrational? Nice of you to take the self-righteous sectarian ground here, it's very pretty and convenient.
1. I can see the fault with Christians as much as I can see the fault with Muslims. I don't over look wrong doing by them, how is that a bad thing? There hasn't been threads about what good things religions have done, so you are simply ASSuming things again.
2. Finally what? I never tried to sugar coat what he has done. I have been showing that it's him and his sect, not Islam. I have been showing what so called "christians" do in the name of God, but that shouldn't label Christians as terrrorist either. You imply that Christians are the "good guys" and Muslims are the "bad guys", but things are not so black and white.
3. Never said that was his only resoning, only a partial reason.
4. Nope. Just showing that religion in the wrong hands lead to bad things, despite which one you choose to follow. I said no religion would commit evil, but that doesn't stop quacks from within to do so along with their own sheep to follow them. It's more about the person who's leading whatever flock in an alternate belief system that's based on their original religion. Ask an Afgan how much they liked the Taliban telling them how they should practice their religion. Or ask them how they liked how arrogant many of the Islamic freedom fighters from other Arab countries were and how they'd handle them when they stepped out of line in when in Afghanistan. Islam is diverse with different versions that believe in different ways, just like the Christian faith.
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Originally posted by Swazo:
1. I can see the fault with Christians as much as I can see the fault with Muslims. I don't over look wrong doing by them, how is that a bad thing? There hasn't been threads about what good things religions have done, so you are simply ASSuming things again.
Maybe I should have asked a question. How can you claim Christianity is being forced upon everyone if you yourself (and millions of other people) are not Christians?
Originally posted by Swazo:
2. Finally what? I never tried to sugar coat what he has done. I have been showing that it's him and his sect, not Islam. I have been showing what so called "christians" do in the name of God, but that shouldn't label Christians as terrrorist either. You imply that Christians are the "good guys" and Muslims are the "bad guys", but things are not so black and white.
Oh, but you did draw an equivalence between Muslim terrorists and Christians. You're appearing to be backing off that statement now, which is a little refreshing.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Swazo:
1. I can see the fault with Christians as much as I can see the fault with Muslims. I don't over look wrong doing by them, how is that a bad thing? There hasn't been threads about what good things religions have done, so you are simply ASSuming things again.
Maybe I should have asked a question. How can you claim Christianity is being forced upon everyone if you yourself (and millions of other people) are not Christians?
Originally posted by Swazo:
2. Finally what? I never tried to sugar coat what he has done. I have been showing that it's him and his sect, not Islam. I have been showing what so called "christians" do in the name of God, but that shouldn't label Christians as terrrorist either. You imply that Christians are the "good guys" and Muslims are the "bad guys", but things are not so black and white.
Oh, but you did draw an equivalence between Muslim terrorists and Christians. You're appearing to be backing off that statement now, which is a little refreshing.
I live in Salt Lake City, do you think that I haven't had Christianity shoved in my face every day of my life? I've had to deal with separation of church and state a lot, not being Mormon in Utah. In our state history, many of our laws were basicly from the Book Of Mormon. They made THEIR laws, OUR laws.
That's the lesser of what I'm talking about, the wacko Aryan Nation or any other extreme side is what I compared to people like OBL.
Even under OBL's watch of Afghanistan during the Taliban's rule, non-muslims could live there. They were just treated like the Jews were initially in Nazi Germany, and they had to wear badges showing their religion and to mark their home or business. So why do you assume that even OBL would ban other religions.
If you have other questions about what I think, ask in a PM. This has totally hi-jacked this thread. 
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Originally posted by Swazo:
The bible has been rewritten time and time again, before it ever made it onto paper. How many times have people used bible quotes to justify keeping black people from being actual people and so many other reasons to hate and kill? The bible was written by man and so was the Koran. What's your point? When you find something written by God, let me know 
People who look to either and come away with an understanding of why someone should die or why they should be hated, is a POS. Those turds need to be flushed like any other out there.
Have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? If not I suggest you do some research before you go spewing out more of this garbage to others. They prove the Bible is just as acurate today as it was when it was first written. The Bible was written by man, inspired by God. The Koran was written by a man, inspired by men.
- Tim
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Originally posted by Swazo:
I live in Salt Lake City, do you think that I haven't had Christianity shoved in my face every day of my life? I've had to deal with separation of church and state a lot, not being Mormon in Utah. In our state history, many of our laws were basicly from the Book Of Mormon. They made THEIR laws, OUR laws.
You mean in a representative government the laws actually represent what the people want? What a concept! Besides, anything that Utah does that I would even remotely consider 'forcing religion' down your throat would be unconstitutional.
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Back on topic:
I think it is a mistake to only search more Arab's.
Arabs, Africans, Asians are all working together with OBL. OBL is speical in the fact that he is the glue that keeps many different groups together, like the Kashmiris and Egypt's Islamic Jihad as one example.
Our enemies have more than just one face. I wouldn't be suprised if there will be caucasian people amoung their ranks, if not already amoung them.
So, IMO we should trust no one and have our various transit security reflect that. But that won't happen, so I guess all we have to combat things is to generally stereotype people from what they appear to be.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Swazo:
I live in Salt Lake City, do you think that I haven't had Christianity shoved in my face every day of my life? I've had to deal with separation of church and state a lot, not being Mormon in Utah. In our state history, many of our laws were basicly from the Book Of Mormon. They made THEIR laws, OUR laws.
You mean in a representative government the laws actually represent what the people want? What a concept! Besides, anything that Utah does that I would even remotely consider 'forcing religion' down your throat would be unconstitutional.
Well, the state's government was unbalanced for a long time. It's slowly starting to reflect the actual population, and it is quickly doing so in SLC. SLC's last 2 Mayors have made that happen 
That doesn't change what has happend, but we're learning from our past history to make the correct changes today.
Feel free to PM me since this is off-topic.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Swazo:
The bible has been rewritten time and time again, before it ever made it onto paper. How many times have people used bible quotes to justify keeping black people from being actual people and so many other reasons to hate and kill? The bible was written by man and so was the Koran. What's your point? When you find something written by God, let me know
People who look to either and come away with an understanding of why someone should die or why they should be hated, is a POS. Those turds need to be flushed like any other out there.
Have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? If not I suggest you do some research before you go spewing out more of this garbage to others. They prove the Bible is just as acurate today as it was when it was first written. The Bible was written by man, inspired by God. The Koran was written by a man, inspired by men.
What about the New Testiment? The rest of your post is totally your opinion and reeks a "holier than thou" attitude shared by most unchristian-like christians I've met. Your way isn't the way
Feel free to PM me since this is off-topic.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Swazo:
3. I'm saying that you cannot blame Islam for what a sect does,
OMG Yes you can because that is what the Koran teaches them to do. Quit ignoring me. You are wrong!
Your post reminds me to what an Indian coworker of mine once said (shortly after arriving from India):
"I hate all Cristians for what they do. They come into my country as missionaries and give food/money to people if they declare themselves as Christians. Missionaries get people to lie about their religion because their Bible teaches them to do so."
When I told him that I am a Christian, he asked how could I identify myself with "those people" he saw in India.
Your "opinion" about Muslims is about as well-founded as his is about Christians. Except for he based his opinion on what he personally saw.
You seem to know pretty well what the Koran says. Did you read it ? He did not read the Bible just had an "educated opinion" about it based on talking to others and watching the (certainly biased) media in his country.
Just like him, you seem to have a pretty good sense to select the true representatives of a community of hunderds of millions of people...
T.
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