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Joined: Apr 2002
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by Swazo:
When peoples religous views are SO important to THEM that they have to force it apon others, that's just like what Osama Bin Laden is doing.
You must be reading from the Dick Durbin Book of Analogies. You either have a distorted view of what 'Bible Thumpers' are and what their goals are, or you have a very distorted view of what Bin Laden is doing. I'm not quite sure what you would consider 'forcing views upon', but I can assure you it is nothing like what Bin Laden and Islamic terrorists are doing. They are killing people who do not practice Islam. I wonder what your world is like if you equate someone ringing your doorbell with a couple religious words with killing you if you don't practice their faith.
You are one weak-ass [censored] if you feel threatened by anyone 'forcing their views' on you.
Originally posted by Swazo:
Organised religon does not equate morality, ethics and virtue.... history proves this time and time again.
Equate with what? Your statement above makes no sense.
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How short sighted are you davo? Christian extremist can be just as deadly as islamic extremists. There have been the wacko abortion clinic attacks for example. Killing because you don't share religious views isn't only an islamic trait, or do I need to thumb through european history for you? Speaking of which, that's one of the main reasons why T.J. wanted the seperation of church and state.
It's not people forcing their views that I find annoying, it's when they feel the need to change our laws to reflect their religion. That's a problem, if you don't see why then try having a different religion attempt to make their norm yours.
Oh and pardon me, I meant equal. Thank you Captain Thesaurus
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
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1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone
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OP
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Originally posted by Nate S:
You're not serious...right?  How can you be so ignorant??
Darwinian theorists don't say "it's out there, we just have to find it."
And computers didn't come from thin air! They came from years of research from humans! The same goes for pretty much everything in our society!
Anyone who has studied biology and genetics knows that evolution is pretty much a fact now.
You want a link to apes? We share 90% of our DNA with Baboons! By the way, we did not evolve from monkeys, we have a common ancestor with them, and are their "cousins."
To believe otherwise is just stupidity!
Go read up on genetics and what Darwin discovered before you say that our bodies are "too complex" to come from evolution! Darwin studied birds on the Galapagos islands AS they evolved into different species on the islands, to meet each different ecological system on the island. He observed a change in the shape of their beaks based upon what they ate.
What you're saying makes absolutely no sense! Evolution HAS been proved, and there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of evidence backing it up.
Give me evidence that links us to the primates. 90%, if that is the number is still a far way off from being 100%.
Darwin's FInches were found to NOT BE evolving as he thought they were. In fact, if you studied this much, you would find that they were actually adapting to their environment. Their beaks would adapt to the food they were eating.
As for the "missing link" that still doesn't exist. Darwinists are still looking for it. They swear that if given the time, it will be found. They thought they had it when some bones were discovered. But after some more research, it was found that the bones did not even come from the same place or species. Shall I go on?
YOu still have not approached the subject of irreducibe complexity. Why not?
And where is your points about the Biblical principles not working?
So far, you have quoted what the scientific arena refuses to let go of. They refuse to believe that a designer could exist that would create us simply to be. They refuse to accept the fact that EVERY Darwinistic founding has been founded on lies, falsities, or imagination.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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A Christian and an evolutionist arguing over "proof" -- WOW! 
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by Swazo:
Christian extremist can be just as deadly as islamic extremists. There have been the wacko abortion clinic attacks for example.
The big difference between Christian extremists and Islamic extremists is there is nearly-unanimous repudiation from Chrisitians when someone does something such as kill abortionists. You're trying to say that murder and destruction is as large a part of Christianity as it is Islam. Are you delusional?
Originally posted by Swazo:
Killing because you don't share religious views isn't only an islamic trait, or do I need to thumb through european history for you?
Thanks for bringing up history, because that's the only place you can find murder and destruction to be any part of Christianity. Would I be accurate if I called today's Romans barbaric and cruel because they used to like watching people be slaughtered in the Coliseum?
Originally posted by Swazo:
It's not people forcing their views that I find annoying, it's when they feel the need to change our laws to reflect their religion. That's a problem, if you don't see why then try having a different religion attempt to make their norm yours.
I have a problem with that too. But I am yet to find a credible threat, and certainly nothing that would make me compare Christians to Osama bin Laden. You guys really need to get over your fear of organized religion -- I know, it was cool and fashionable in college, but this is the real world now. It's time to move on.
Originally posted by Swazo:
Oh and pardon me, I meant equal. Thank you Captain Thesaurus
Actually, the correct usage could be found in the dictionary.
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Viss1:
Originally posted by 04marauder:
Only thing to point out here is that they already possess the fraction of this population and have for years. Which would mean the domination would have already occurred but it doesn't.
Personally I think the domination is coming along pretty nicely. There's a self-described Evenagelical in the White House as we speak, and he sure didn't hold back on appointing a cabinet and federal judges who share his religious identification.
The Evangelical lobby may have possessed the numbers and money in the past, but up until '00 they didn't have the instant means of communication (internet) to whip up instant support for petitions, fundraisers, and grassroots campaigning. I read an article once which mentioned how an Evangelical lobbyist was amazed at how he could collect 10,000 signatures on a petition in a matter of minutes.
IMO what we're seeing is one of the world's most fervent groups become one of the world's most efficiently-mobilized lobbying machines. It will take a massive effort by more moderate groups to counteract that power in the next election.
They are definately a large block of influential and powerful voters and activists that need to be accounted for. That's clear. What's not so clear is this notion that they have succeeded or will succeed in creating an oppressive church run state. Don't tell me everyone has conceded to this kind of grim vision for our country. We're all better than that.
And the more moderate groups you speak of not only exist but they exist within the church itself. As I've been trying to point out. But nobody seems to believe me, which is fine.
Not all christians are happy with the direction our leadership has taken this country. My feeling is that there will be a realization in the church that neither of the two major political parties are representing the biblical principles that christians value. Republicans can not and should not claim to be the party 'chosen by God'. If they do continue that kind of disturbing rhetoric their only going to qualify themselves as modern day Pharisee's. As for the Democrats, well they just don't get it. They don't see the relevance of embracing a deeper spiritual or dare I say christian tradition into their party.
But this shift in the church is occuring imo and eventually change will come in the form of more moderate voices gaining influence.
1998.5 SVT
I'm working on it.
WTB 2.0L Contique.
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Nope, just trying to prove a point and I have. The fact that sects like Osama Bin Laden's does not represent the whole of islam. Only bible thumpers like yourself think they do, but you get upset about being tied into the same group as abortion clinic bombers and the like  I seem delusional to you because you assume that what you think is what everyone else should be thinking as well. When they don't, it's "crazy talk" and what not 
Who said ancient history? I'm talking about MODERN history, like the IRA's religious BS with the UK's state religion. Look in American history for the people who were able to justify slavery, segregation, and pretty much every other hate crime by quoting the bible.
A small step back, look at how Latin America came to be with the help of christians. It's a consistent effort of christians as a whole, through out it's history to try to wipe out religious diversity by force. Granted, that's mostly the Catholic Church itself.
ALL reasons that religon IS seperate our government and why it should stay that way.
To denounce organized religion isn't something learned in college, as you ASSume. I choose to after growing up where I have, going to school where I have, serving my country in the military, traveling across North America, parts of South America and Europe before I denounced them for myself.
Speaking of which, you speak of so many world issues davo. Do you ever step outside of heavily subsidized corn country or even have a passport?
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Swazo:
Nope, just trying to prove a point and I have. The fact that sects like Osama Bin Laden's does not represent the whole of islam. Only bible thumpers like yourself think they do, but you get upset about being tied into the same group as abortion clinic bombers and the like I seem delusional to you because you assume that what you think is what everyone else should be thinking as well. When they don't, it's "crazy talk" and what not
Uhh hello. The difference is that the Koran tells its followers to kill anyone who will not convert. The Bible does not.
- Tim
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by Swazo:
Nope, just trying to prove a point and I have. The fact that sects like Osama Bin Laden's does not represent the whole of islam. Only bible thumpers like yourself think they do, but you get upset about being tied into the same group as abortion clinic bombers and the like I seem delusional to you because you assume that what you think is what everyone else should be thinking as well. When they don't, it's "crazy talk" and what not
Uhh hello. The difference is that the Koran tells its followers to kill anyone who will not convert. The Bible does not.
Then round all Muslim people up and stick them in internment camps to save yourself from these awful religous killers 
The bible has been used to "say" things too. It's amazing how it's interpetations change when tax status is on the line.
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone
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