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Originally posted by Seawulf:
Oh For Gods Sake! I don't check the forums in a day and it all goes to heck. First of all boost is boost and both SCs and turbo's are difficult to tune right.

Both will negatively affect fuel economy depending on circumstances. A light foot on the throttle can do wonders for your mpg. A turbo is arguably better for fuel economy since it operates off waste gasses from the engine and not a belt that needs engine power to turn, they say the cruise exhaust velocities would spin the turbo a bit and make the engine breathe a little easier.

Yes a SC is easier on the engine, but that's because it's weaker. At least on the Zetec they are. Pound per pound of boost, all SC for the Zetec are weaker than even the smallest turbo's. My first base setup for my car using a turbo more suited for a 1.6L engine put out 145whp and 156wtq. That's only 5hp less than the base Jackson Racing unit but I only revved to 5800rpms and the JR setup was revved to 7000rpms. That was done on stock fuel and ECU on a lean AF.

Like I said the HP was slightly lower than JRs list figures, I killed the SC on TQ. A stock JR will barely do 130wtq and at similar boost levels will always e 20-30wtq behind a turbo.

The reason this is is because a SC has more lag than a turbo. Yes, lag. Because the SC is tied to the crank and rpms so it doesn't reach full boost until near the redline. My turbo hits full boost by 2700rpms. A properly sized turbo will hit full boost by 2500-3000rpms. I believe a standard t3 super 60 will do full boost around 3500rpms, and that's way faster than the JRSC or even a vortech.

My initial setup also cost around $800 and lasted for over 20k mi before I decided to upgrade and push more boost, so if you are pretty mechanically handy a turbo is cheaper to do. If not and you want the closest thing to a bolt on for our cars, then the JR is it.


I got video of my boost from a stop. Right off the bat it is at 5psi and quickly moves to 7 psi (full boost) at 3000 rpms. How is that lag?

How much boost were you at when you hit 145 whp? I was making 150 whp at 5800 rpms at 7 psi. For me I never cared about torque because that would have been the end of my trans. But I was at 140 at about 5000 rpms at 7psi.

BTW me pushing my car I still get 300-350 to a tank. That is called good tune. I didn't even throw my car on a dyno....that is how easy the S/C is to tune.


Hector 2003 Rally Red Mitsubishi Evolution VIII 257HP/259TQ 2005 Lapis Blue Mazda 6s RET: 00 Cabernet Red Ford Contour Zetec ATX SUPERCHARGED 160HP/141TQ
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Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
how is a SC easier on the engine?




It's all about the torque. Torque breaks things. With a turbo, there is a large torque peak when the turbo reaches max efficiency. Usually around 3-4k rpms. With a SC, you get a nice even TQ and HP curve to redline. As Hector said, a SC is very easy on your drivetrain.

HTH,
BP


Ben ---'96 Contour GL * Zetec ATX * Tan on Black steelies--- +++JRSC M62 Under Construction+++ My big-a$$ mod list.
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so in other words, its easier to tune because it doesn't make any torque and therefore you don't have to worry about any parts breaking?


IonNinja 2005 Saturn ION-2 Sedan 1996 Ford Contour GL - Collecting dust...Zetec project anyone?
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Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
so in other words, its easier to tune because it doesn't make any torque and therefore you don't have to worry about any parts breaking?


It makes torque...just not an astronomical amount. Besides a lot of torque on a FWD car is stupid. It amounts to A LOT of wheelspin.


Hector 2003 Rally Red Mitsubishi Evolution VIII 257HP/259TQ 2005 Lapis Blue Mazda 6s RET: 00 Cabernet Red Ford Contour Zetec ATX SUPERCHARGED 160HP/141TQ
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This is my first dyno at 5psi with a 2.25" exhaust, open element airfilter and 2.5" downpipe with crappy connector to the main exhaust and stock everything else including fuel and ecu.


This is my dad's dyno on a Focus ZX3 with same turbo and intercooler, but 30lb injectors stock maf/airbox,exhaust, and around 5.5-6psi. My dyno was on a dynojet, his is a mustang dyno.


You convert his to dynojet figures and he's pushing 140whp and 160wtq. That's with a good tune that's real conservative. If he didn't have the stock airbox and filter and exhaust, he'd get at least 5-10hp more, easy. Still, he's satisfied with his numbers and his spool is instant.

That's why I prefer a turbo. And yes you get more TQ and TQ can break things, you don't have to drive it like you stole it to get the power. I've got 211wtq below 4000rpms, with gas prices what they are I rarely go over 3000rpms these days and I still have 180+wtq at that rpm. A easy right foot will go a long way to stop wheel spin and not breaking things.

The best thing about a properly sized turbo on a stock Zetec is it put's all it's boost down low where the engine can handle it better. At higher rpms the forces on the engine rise exponentially and not linearly. Meaning while the forces on the engine at 3000rpms = x, the forces at 6000 rpms aren't (x * 2), they're more like x squared. That's why I don't like SC or high output turbo setups. They put all the power at the top where the stresses are greater.

My ideal setup now would be a small turbo like I have, with a dual stage boost controller setup to overboost the turbo to 14psi from the spool up till 4500rpms or so, then it drops to 10psi and stays there till the redline. That would give you around 250wtq or more but still only around 200whp. But having that much TQ at 3000rpms would feel awesome and be totally streetable.


2000 Rio Red I4 Cougar 200whp & 210wtq at 9psi 254whp & 276wtq with NX 35shot WRX TD04 Turbo, Cut Short Shifter, Strut Tower Bar, 17" ZN Wheels, Roush Springs, Starion Intercooler, NX 35 shot, HKS SS BOV, Full 3" exhaust,StreetFlight Chip
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the JRSC M45 kit is designed as a bolt on mod for the zetec so that internal upgrades arent needed. run more boost on it and its pretty nice, or you could upgrade your internals and compression ratio etc and then put a M90 or M112 on it and it would be quite respectable.

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Wow - dat'sa lotta posts for one quick question. LOL

We live in central PA where we get weather (whether we like it or not, it snows a lot). On the search for a new car, we just got an SUV with lotsa torque and plenty of HP.

The little black 'tour will still be in service - going on regular business trips with my wife and me, and as a daily driver when my oldest daughter gets her DL.

If this were my son, I'm sure he'd be after me to pop on a S/C or a turbo (when he's old enough to appreciate it, he'll want the Turbo but will get the SC). But, my girl is more concerned that I clean the carpets and keep the paint shiney until she can drive it regularly.

Either way, I'm keeping the my Zetec. As a matter of priciple, you can have the 'tour when you pry the steering wheel out of my cold, dead hands.

Thanks again for all the posts. Great information.


I finally figured out why I'll never swing a golf club like Arnie or Jack... I'm not them.
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Originally posted by UncleJimbo:

Either way, I'm keeping the my Zetec. As a matter of priciple, you can have the 'tour when you pry the steering wheel out of my cold, dead hands.




That's the CEG spirit!


J.T. 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 294ci V8. Custom CAI, headers on the way... 1997 Mercury Mystique Zetec ATX Deceased February 2006
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Originally posted by UncleJimbo:
...you can have the 'tour when you pry the steering wheel out of my cold, dead hands.





AMEN to that!

BP


Ben ---'96 Contour GL * Zetec ATX * Tan on Black steelies--- +++JRSC M62 Under Construction+++ My big-a$$ mod list.
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