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Originally posted by RandyCSVT:
Acost�ºmbrese a ver espa�±ol por todas partes.
Exactamente... en este momento una mitad de la gente en los EU habla espanol u otros idiomas. Es una parte de la vida en este pais.
And it's ashamed when Americans don't want to learn a foreign language because they say that someone should be learning thiers. When I lived in Mexico for a bit last year, it wasn't even enough knowing Spanish since many of the people in outlying towns (Yucatan) still spoke Mayan. I made an effort to try to learn some Mayan though, and that effort is all that matters. I was disgusted to get on busses and have American tourists trying to speak english repeatedly to a driver who had no idea what they were saying. People in a foreign land should make an effort to speak the language of that place, but should also be forgiving of others who don't speak it as well as they would hope to.
The ignorant nature of this thread has really pissed me off at times.
-Chris
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Originally posted by sail114:
The ignorant nature of people really pisses me off at times.
edited for a broader truth!
my family is mostly 1st and 2nd generation italians. so i have an idea of how immigrants feel. and i haven't met too many immigrants from latin america who had a work ethic that was any worse than most americans. hell, it's often a higher work ethic.
though illegal immigrants still suck.
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone? 
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Originally posted by sail114:
And it's ashamed when Americans don't want to learn a foreign language because they say that someone should be learning thiers.
Originally posted by sail1114:
I was disgusted to get on busses and have American tourists trying to speak english repeatedly to a driver who had no idea what they were saying.
These two statements, and/or their implications, are highly contradictory. You're saying you're ashamed of Americans because they don't want to learn others' language and expect others to learn theirs, but you're also disgusted when we try to speak English to someone who has no idea what they're saying. Shouldn't you then be disgusted when someone tries to speak Spanish to us, and makes no effort to learn 'our language'?
Speaking of tolerance, the tolerance for people who think everyone should be able to speak English isn't very high. 
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by sail114:
And it's ashamed when Americans don't want to learn a foreign language because they say that someone should be learning thiers.
Originally posted by sail1114:
I was disgusted to get on busses and have American tourists trying to speak english repeatedly to a driver who had no idea what they were saying.
These two statements, and/or their implications, are highly contradictory. You're saying you're ashamed of Americans because they don't want to learn others' language and expect others to learn theirs, but you're also disgusted when we try to speak English to someone who has no idea what they're saying. Shouldn't you then be disgusted when someone tries to speak Spanish to us, and makes no effort to learn 'our language'?
Speaking of tolerance, the tolerance for people who think everyone should be able to speak English isn't very high.
Like someone said earlier, i have no tolerance for the ignorant either.
I think sail114 meant "it's a shame" not ashamed, which are two completely different things. I just think you tried to use his honest mistake and used it out of context.
-ivan c.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Speaking of tolerance, the tolerance for people who think everyone should be able to speak English isn't very high.
The views on this subject seem to miss the mark in my opinion. It is not about speaking 'MY' language.
This language issue & lawful immigration should be a simple matter of integration. Better communication with the indigionous population is a great idea no matter which direction you cross the border. For tourism, it enriches the whole experience of a foreign nation. For immigration, well frankly they're here to be a part of this nation - not set up their own. Not being able to speak the predominant language of the nation simply by its nature segregates them. Celebrate you heritage, speak you native tongue at home & teach your children, but be Americans first - that's why you're here.
Better communication = better opportunity = better understanding of the society at large = better assymilation = less likely to be victimized = better citizens = better nation.
Edit:
Tom Lehrer:
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that!"
Last edited by TourDeForce; 06/30/05 02:59 PM.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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It's still the same thing. Is it a shame that people try to speak foreign languages here without trying to learn ours, in the same way "it's a shame" Americans don't try to learn others' languages when they travel?
Sooooo....tolerance is relative?
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My feelings exactly. It's a 2-way street. I shouldn't expect someone to know my language when I travel, nor should someone coming to America expect me to know their language. I have friends from Venezuela who I hung out with back in college. During one particular party, there were several latin-american countries represented (Puerto Rico, DR, Columbia, Venezuela, Mexico, etc), and for a while I was the only American in the room. Since I know Spanish, they were speaking spanish 95% of the time. When other American's arrived though, they switched their conversations over to English. This was out of respect for those who did not speak Spanish, especially since we were at an American university.
When I was leaving Mexico and was at the airport, my entire conversation at the ticket counter took place in Spanish. Although I knew that the attendent spoke perfect english, I had the respect and knowledge to speak her language.
-Chris
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/ Originally posted by Davo:
It's still the same thing. Is it a shame that people try to speak foreign languages here without trying to learn ours, in the same way "it's a shame" Americans don't try to learn others' languages when they travel?
Sooooo....tolerance is relative?
Travel is much different than living in a country long-term/permanently. If I were to spend any significant amount of time living in Mexico for example, I would certainly learn the language - and be well rewarded for my efforts. Most illegal aliens living in the US seem to make no real effort at all to blend in and become part of the existing culture.
It is distressing to see this, as I believe a common language is one important factor that has made the US so strong.
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Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Travel is much different than living in a country long-term/permanently.
It's even more ridiculous, then, to consider it a shame that people won't learn a language when traveling. If I'm going to Germany for two weeks, I'm not going to make any attempt to learn German. However, if I was going over there for 6 months or permanently, I certainly would. What sail is saying is that it's a shame Americans make no attempt to learn another language when traveling, but it disturbs him that Americans are upset that immigrants make no attempt to learn English. I'm still trying to understand his point of view.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Travel is much different than living in a country long-term/permanently.
It's even more ridiculous, then, to consider it a shame that people won't learn a language when traveling. If I'm going to Germany for two weeks, I'm not going to make any attempt to learn German. However, if I was going over there for 6 months or permanently, I certainly would. What sail is saying is that it's a shame Americans make no attempt to learn another language when traveling, but it disturbs him that Americans are upset that immigrants make no attempt to learn English. I'm still trying to understand his point of view.
jesus davo, are you looking to pick a fight??? he's saying that people shouldn't have to learn the language of the foreigners who are visiting their country, not that it's a shame if those foreigners don't learn the country they are visiting's language! i think everyone can agree, buy a translation book when you're travelling.
sheesh.
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone?
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