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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Originally posted by RandyCSVT:

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I hate the argument that immigrants are a burden on this country. Immigrant workers are doing the jobs that white america is too proud to do. They are working unbelievable hard for not so great wages. They are even a benefit when they are illegal. An illegal has to use a social security number that isnt their's. They pay social security and other taxes that they get no benefits from.

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White america? I have chinese, italian, hispanic, and black friends that wouldn't do those jobs either.

Umm, NO. If they are ILLEGAL, they are not paying taxes, social security, etc. They do get many benefits from tax payers though. You better believe they can use our hospitals, their kids born here will get an education, etc.

I don't gripe about immigrants, but there is more to it then you know.

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Originally posted by RandyCSVT:

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Illegals pay taxes! The only way you dont end up paying taxes is if you are working under the table. There aren't very many of those jobs around here. All the illegals I know pay taxes under a fake or bought social security card. Why are you upset that their kids get an education. Bilingual smart kids are more useful than smart kids who can only speak english.

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Around here there are plenty of under the table jobs, mainly in the fields.
Who said I was upset?

Originally posted by RandyCSVT:

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I am tired of this argument and am only getting more frustrated after every post. I am surprised to hear what some people think, but I guess I see it differently being the child of immigrant parents.

My mom and dad came to this country over 25 years ago. My father didn't speak any English and my mother knew very little english herself. My father busted his ass as a dishwasher at a restaurant that didn't pay him much, and my mom worked at a textile factory. My father switched to the textile factory and met my mom there. They got married and he started working at a jewelry company. He eventually saved up enough money to start his own jewelry company and became very successful. Learning English was a long Process for them, and my dad still struggles a little bit. My mom learned english watching Soaps and my dad picked up what he could watching the news and stuff like the discovery channel. My dad's business took off well and he was making just about a six figure salary. They pay their taxes, we have our own house, and another we rent out, My parents pay for their own health insurance and we never used any government hand outs. My sister and I even went to private schools. My dad retired early, speaks English fairly well, and you might even think he is just your everyday immigrant, but he has contributed and done more than most of the Americans I have seen.

My sister and I will continue to do well and I guarantee you that we will not be this great burden on society. I graduated with honors from Boston University. My sister is currently at Boston University, and we were both there on great scholarships. I will be going to grad school for almost no cost to me thanks to more scholarships. My family's current generation and those to come in the future will be contributing to the enrichment of this country, and that is all because two Latino's who couldn't speak English decided to move to this country.

To all of you who say learn english or get out. My dad was making 90+K a year and still struggled with his bad accent and not so perfect understanding of English. After a certain point English courses can only be so helpful. It has been a very funny experience growing up in America. I remember sitting at a light in a brand new truck my dad just bought for himself, and some angry white man told him to go back to his country and said soemthing about we should speak english.

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Originally posted by Plain ole' todras:

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Oh god the uneducated racist banter in this post is making my head hurt. Oh wow!

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"We didnt land on Plymouth rock, Plymouth rock landed on us!"

Originally posted by Obie1:

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Originally posted by Plain ole' todras:

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Oh god the uneducated racist banter in this post is making my head hurt. Oh wow!

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"We didnt land on Plymouth rock, Plymouth rock landed on us!"

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Originally posted by RandyCSVT:

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have you heard any of these immigrants saying, "I refuse to learn English." Nobody says that.

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Originally posted by ZeroHour:

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This is the way I look at this topic. My great-grandparents and great great grandparents came from germany and france. All of them come to the US and learned ENGLISH. They had to learn it to become part of the society. We STILL speak ENGLISH, and we should KEEP speaking ENGLISH. Every other country that moves in with us picks up english, but no! freakin frobid the damn mexicans and cubans on rafts would have to do something! The ones that do come into the country and make something of themselves do learn english. All the other ones, well sorry to say DRAIN ON THE FAILING ECOMONY!

more case in point, I was taught tolerance when I was younger, but not for ignorant people. I would expect people in germany to speak english for me, or people in Africa to learn English if I for whatever reason went there! I wouldn't go to japan and be pissy when everyon looked at me like I'm a pine tree in the desert!

West and East, both sides came, and adapted. Damn southern countries just had to screw it up!

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Originally posted by Pope:

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I am failing to see how an illegal immigrant working a job for a substandard wage benefits the economy.

Last I checked, if buisness were forced to hire REAL AMERICANS at wages capable of supporting a family, then more AMERICANS would have money to stimulate economic growth in AMERICA. However, the typical illegal immigrant does the undersirable work at a wage that an AMERICAN, stuck paying the tax bills to support all the other AMERICAN's without jobs due to a faltering economy, can not survive on. Here is the major difference, where the AMERICAN needs a good wage to survive in America, the illegal immigrant tends to live with other illegal immigrants, supporting a common (and usually poorly maintained house) while saving the money to return to the country of origin to aid in the importation of more illegal immigrants. (or at least this is what I gather from census reports and immigration studies)

Illegal immigration and corporate support of this behavior undermines the stability of the US economy, end of story.

Secondly, to deny that some immigrants purposefully choose to ignore English, is to be ignorant of the truth.

Walk into the factory I previously worked at, and you will find 300+ immigrant employees, ~50% of which are legal in the US, many of these people (the majority) have been employed by this company for at least 5 years, however only a small hand full speak English. (I should also mention that the company PAYS for any employee to learn English if they choose)

Relatives of mine, hire migrant workers to care for crops (all legal immigrants to the best of my knowledge), the same group comes around every summer, has been the same family group for about 15 years now, the adults still don't speak english, that is of-course unless you count a 17 year old as an adult, then maybe there are 2 (two), and a hand full of younger children that have knowledge of English.


You want to say that it takes awhile for an adult to learn a foreign language, I say it only takes as long as a willing person needs, and many immigrants come to America unwilling, and the current Liberal "acceptance" and "tolerance" BS opinions with the help of the ACLU have completely destroyed any reason for immigrants to be willing.

Total submersion in a foreign language promotes rather rapid adaptation of the language (and of the culture). Until we FORCE the removal and intolerance of foreign languages in public places the problem in America will only get worse. A mentor of mine spent 1.5 Years in Guatemalla and returned fluent in Spanish, spent 9 months in Germany and returned fluent in German. Now explain to me how this American traveled to foreign countries and learned their languages so quickly, when typically immigrants here can't learn English.

Only 2 reasons will stand up to strict scrutiny:
1. They don't feel the need to learn it.
OR
2. They are mentally inferior.

I believe it is reason 1, since that is what sociology, psychology, and social constructionism hint to. But if someone wants to refute that liberal acceptance is to blame, which gives support to reason 2, go ahead and offer up some genetic proof, cause last I checked, there are NOT any significant genetic differances between varied ethnic groups.

Originally posted by RandyCSVT:

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I am tired of this argument and am only getting more frustrated after every post. I am surprised to hear what some people think, but I guess I see it differently being the child of immigrant parents.

My mom and dad came to this country over 25 years ago. My father didn't speak any English and my mother knew very little english herself. My father busted his ass as a dishwasher at a restaurant that didn't pay him much, and my mom worked at a textile factory. My father switched to the textile factory and met my mom there. They got married and he started working at a jewelry company. He eventually saved up enough money to start his own jewelry company and became very successful. Learning English was a long Process for them, and my dad still struggles a little bit. My mom learned english watching Soaps and my dad picked up what he could watching the news and stuff like the discovery channel. My dad's business took off well and he was making just about a six figure salary. They pay their taxes, we have our own house, and another we rent out, My parents pay for their own health insurance and we never used any government hand outs. My sister and I even went to private schools. My dad retired early, speaks English fairly well, and you might even think he is just your everyday immigrant, but he has contributed and done more than most of the Americans I have seen.

My sister and I will continue to do well and I guarantee you that we will not be this great burden on society. I graduated with honors from Boston University. My sister is currently at Boston University, and we were both there on great scholarships. I will be going to grad school for almost no cost to me thanks to more scholarships. My family's current generation and those to come in the future will be contributing to the enrichment of this country, and that is all because two Latino's who couldn't speak English decided to move to this country.

To all of you who say learn english or get out. My dad was making 90+K a year and still struggled with his bad accent and not so perfect understanding of English. After a certain point English courses can only be so helpful. It has been a very funny experience growing up in America. I remember sitting at a light in a brand new truck my dad just bought for himself, and some angry white man told him to go back to his country and said soemthing about we should speak english.

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There is quite a difference between a little struggling and not knowing enough to go the grocery store. The latter is the person I have the problem with. If after 25 years your father was unable to go to the store and buy food or clothing without a translator, I'd say there is a problem, however, if he simply has a problem with some words or phrases, there is nothing wrong with that, and I hope that no one else here would either.

You are right, English classes are only successful to a point. However, removing translators and multilanguage signs, etc.... force learning at rates faster than that of language aquisition by children. (it may also be noted that a childs mind is close to 200% more attuned to learning than an adults)

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