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Originally posted by Pope:
actually, it used to be official. A few state representatives (that happened to have been ancestors of illegal hispanic immigrants) introduced and pushed through a bill that repealled a "national language" on the grounds that an official language wasn't "fair" or something like that.
Uhm..., There has never been an 'official' language of the Unidted States. There was however a national vote for a national language in 1894. The language that won was German, with English comming a third. Due to the closeness of the vote as well as other political factors, the results were abandoned and instead the US choose to have no official language.
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Originally posted by Pope:
Originally posted by RandyCSVT:
This post originally refered to Spanish as gibberish, and I was just trying to point out that whatever language you currently speak could at some point be seen as "gibberish."
I agree, at some point all languages can be seen as gibberish from some point of view, and from my point of view as an English speaking American, Spanish is gibberish, but so are German, Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Lithuanian, Latvian, Galic, Japanese, Chinese, Koreanese (sp?)(sorry,had to do it), Russian, etc.... and I'd be offended if I saw a ton of signs all over in these languages too...
ok....I am going to try one more time. I will be more direct this time. Have some respect for whatever language somebody else speaks. I was using your term "gibberish," but I think it is disrespectfull and rude.
Originally posted by Who the F are You?:
does your family tree not have any branches on it?
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i can see both sides of this debate and really don't know which one to support.
IMO, if you are going to choose to live in a country, be it legally or illegally, you should have enough resepct for that country to learn the most widely accepted language (English in this case). But, I know that learning another language can be difficult and a legal immigrant living in the US might have troubles speaking it perfectly. I know when I lived in France for 6 months I appreciated whenever a person could speak English, but I didn't assume they would. What I am saying is that we should understand and accept that they might be trying to learn and they should understand that learning the "native" language is essential.
~Andrew
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Originally posted by TheAlmightyMe:
TThere was however a national vote for a national language in 1894. The language that won was German, with English comming a third.
Quote:
January 13, 1795 a vote was conducted to have US laws written in German and English, but that vote failed by a close margin and this fact is often interpreted as a move to establish German as the national language, but this is incorrect.
(vote was 42 to 41)
Quote:
The truth is that the U.S. has never had an official language. Several states have declared English official at one time or another, most recently in response to the influx of Spanish speakers. The so-called English Language Amendment (ELA) to the U.S. Constitution, which would give English official status, has been before Congress since 1981, but has yet to pass
But you are correct, and I was wrong the US has never had a national language. The representives I'm thinking of are two of Michigan's they made the paper last year for fighting this bill, I was under the impression it had passed and they fought to have it repealed, when in actuality they work to prevent it from passing.
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Originally posted by Pope:
The sign should have read "This is America, we speak English."
not "we also speak English".... this is what you should find IF you find a reason to vacation in Mexico or Germany
This is America. In America we speak English. Expecting special treatment, ie. services available in a host of Foreign languages is wrong. It's the same as if I went to France and expected everyone to speak English, or if I went to Spain and expected for everyone around me to speak English. This is an English speaking country, official or not. Or it is supposed to be.
See: General Naturalization Requirements (page about halfway down). "Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language."
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Originally posted by Plain ole' todras:
Runs for the door before the lightning strikes. 
who's Blaspheming?
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Im guessing that not too many people saw the sign as some sort of uh...humor. My dad has one at his office, and i think its great, he's Mexican and can speak gibberish but also the unofficial official language of the US. This is America and people should try their best to learn the language, but this is also America which was built upon a whole lot of immigrants including hispanics, asians, etc, so i see no reason why we shouldnt try to accomodate as many people as we can when its easily possible.
(POPE) "the sign should have read "This is America, we speak English."
and then possibly proceeded with "occasionally we are nice enough to bring in an infant with which we will decifer your babble."
This is america, you and alot of people speak english, but some of us widen our horizons and learn to speak other languages and respect other cultures and people. I dont think people like you are doing hispanics or any other immigrants the smallest favor by trying to decifer our babble, we could care less if you cant understand us, we may even find it funny.
(POPE)"not "we also speak English".... this is what you should find IF you find a reason to vacation in Mexico or Germany"
IF someone happens to find a reason to vacation in Mexico or Germany? You gotta be kidding me right?
-Ivan c.
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Originally posted by Pope:
I agree, at some point all languages can be seen as gibberish from some point of view, and from my point of view as an English speaking American, Spanish is gibberish, but so are German, Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Lithuanian, Latvian, Galic, Japanese, Chinese, Koreanese (sp?)(sorry,had to do it), Russian, etc.... and I'd be offended if I saw a ton of signs all over in these languages too...
Does it offend you when people who "speak English" butcher their own language in public signage? If not, you don't have a leg to stand on.
And, according to your POV here, there should never be a Chinatown, no Little Tokyo, no Little Italy (North End here in Boston), no German Town. Just all quaint American cities with absolutely no ethnicity save for WASP.
What about the people who HAD to run here for one reason or another, and are doing their best to figure out a way to get their lives straightened out? What about people who've only been here for 3 weeks and are figuring out the language, despite being perfectly legal?
And, yes, there is a requirement of basic language comprehension for naturalization, but that does NOT mean 100% fluency, and people will still be more comfortable speaking their own language.
Don't get me wrong, if I'm working a counter at any retail establishment, and someone comes in speaking a language I can't understand for the life of me, I'll try to get them to dumb down a little and try as much English as I can.
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Originally posted by mean'tour:
Originally posted by Pope:
The sign should have read "This is America, we speak English."
not "we also speak English".... this is what you should find IF you find a reason to vacation in Mexico or Germany
This is America. In America we speak English. Expecting special treatment, ie. services available in a host of Foreign languages is wrong. It's the same as if I went to France and expected everyone to speak English, or if I went to Spain and expected for everyone around me to speak English. This is an English speaking country, official or not. Or it is supposed to be.
See: General Naturalization Requirements (page about halfway down). "Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language."
No one is saying that it is expected for businesses to have spanish speaking workers. There is nothing wrong with having employees that speak spanish to help out any spanish speaking customers. I will use your France example. I have been to France. I never expected anybody to speak to me in English, because that was not their language. I was very appreciative of any businesses that had english speaking employees. I appreciated the service and they got my business. I encountered some French businesses that did not understand me and even seemed offended by the fact that I could not speak French. Those guys were a-holes and didnt get my business. your thinking is completely backwards. If you were this business owner would you refuse to hire someone who spoke spanish because you thought everybody should already know English? If pig latin became the fastest growing language in the US I would defenitely hire pig latin speaking employees, because I want more customers. Making multiple languages available in different businesses is beneficial to everybody.
Originally posted by Who the F are You?:
does your family tree not have any branches on it?
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Originally posted by RandyCSVT:
Originally posted by Pope:
we definately need to start cracking down on this type of BS; I for one am getting really tired of having my eyes assulted by all the gibberish displayed everywhere, and this is in MI. I can't imagine how ridiculous the situation is there.
Don't worry your kind will defenitely be weeded out eventually. That gibberish is called Spanish. Unless you are a Native American your ancestors also came here speaking "gibberish." "usted ha sido poseÃ?Âdo" that says you got owned. I figured I should translate since you dont speak "gibberish."
When my ancestors (Scotts,Irish,English) came over here they spoke english thank you very much, but the ones that did not that came fron Germany, France,etc. learned english or they did not work. It was as simple as that. If I went to Mexico and refused to learn the language I would not get a job. I work at a company that hires alot of hispanics, they have had to spend extra money on interpreters, dual lang. signs and other stuff because they all refuse to learn english or at least claim they do not understand. If your going to live here learn the language and customs so that you can fit in better. For foriegn people to come here and expect us to change our ways for them is BS!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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