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ac just stopped a check discovered all freon was lost there is a leak at some point. is there a history of one or two weak points in this system that do go
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Joined: Dec 2003
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2003
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leaks a leak...and it could be anywhere in the system. There is no specific place for a leak. In any case you need a system pressure test to check for and repair the leak. Could be a very simple leak, like a seal or a shrader. But could also be something more expensive, like the compressor or evaportor. To have it leak checked is not that expensive, and they can then give you a proper repair price. AC is a luxury...expect to pay for it....I was once told at school by the AC teacher that the average AC repair bill is $500 -$600 dollars ( Canadian ). Get something like a compressor, or evap and it runs up pretty easy.
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New CEG\'er
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New CEG\'er
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Thats easy to find for mechanic. My newphew is one. here is what he would do. He would pressure rise system then put die in it they get out special light to look for die. Wham bam there is the leak total time 5 minutes.
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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It's always that easy only in your dreams.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Well, there you go. Use dye to find the leak.
And welcome to the site!
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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You might want to check if your accumulator is rotted through and needs replacing. Stock they are wrapped in foam, which traps water and causes them to break down and parts enter the AC system, frequently causing leaks.
Here's a pic of a stock accumulator after about 3-4 years.
Common problem with Tours due to the foam.
The foam can be easily un-wrapped (so I've been told, not tried yet) by the clamp. The new one's come without the foam.
Last edited by Christian; 06/29/05 10:33 AM.
1998.5 T-Red on Midnight Blue SVT
Build Number 5320 of 6535
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New CEG\'er
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Big jim why don't you tell all of us how you would find the leak. I'm just stating how my newphew would do it and he is ASE certified. As a matter of fact i kinda had same problem with my ac keep on loosing little freon. He put some special die in the system got out black light and there was a green die lighting up. He said there is the problem rite there. He fixed it and Ice cold.
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by sigprn:
Big jim why don't you tell all of us how you would find the leak. I'm just stating how my newphew would do it and he is ASE certified. As a matter of fact i kinda had same problem with my ac keep on loosing little freon. He put some special die in the system got out black light and there was a green die lighting up. He said there is the problem rite there. He fixed it and Ice cold.
Sometimes A/C leaks are easy to find and sometimes they are not. I agree the skill, training, and experience of the technician can also make a big difference. Finding A/C leaks can be one of the most challenging things a technician faces today.
Today's cars use less refrigerant than they did 20 years ago. When a leak develops, a much smaller leak will make a difference much sooner. Today's refrigerant, R134a, is a smaller molecule than the older R12. The smaller molecule is harder to contain. R134a sometimes leaks over a season just because of the rubber hose to metal tube ratio of some designs. Cars with a lot of rubber hose lose R134a through what may seem to be perfectly good hoses.
Often these smaller leaks are harder to find with the old fashion leak detectors, electronic or gas. They almost are not even used anymore exceopt on an older R12 system.
Refrigerant has oil added as a lubricant for the compressor. It is the only source of lubrication for the compressor, similar to adding oil to the fuel on a two stroke engine. Sometime a leak can be identified from the oil left behind as the refrigerant escapes. Some parts of the system don't have a very high oil content since the oil tends to gather in the low places (compressor, condensor, evaporator).
The dye that is added to help find leaks does not dye the refrigerant, it dyes the oil. If you have a leak that doesn't bring much if any oil out with it, there won't be much of any dye either.
Some leaks are temperature sensitive. The ones that leak only after the system has cooled off and the oil has settled out, will not leave any dye as a witness.
Some parts of the A/C system are not easily accessable to check for leaks from dye, or electronic leak detector. The evaporator is often hard to diagnose, especially if it only leaks from the upper part when it is cold. There are ways to help find this without tearning apart the dash, but they are not foolproof.
Maybe you can start to see more of the picture.
I have seen some exceptional technicians spend a lot of time trying to find an A/C leak that was just hard to pin down. I have seen engineering changes forced by the need to be better able to find problems. I have also seen automakers stick their head in the sand over it too. Volvo only warrants loss of refrigerant when no difinite problem can be found for 12 months. They feel that "seasonal" A/C services are customer responsibility. Later models did have less hose and more metal tubing though.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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New CEG\'er
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New CEG\'er
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Hello
I am in the commercial refrigeration trade for 25 years and although have only worked on maybe three automotive systems, one way we look for a hard to find leak in a small system is to introduce a small amount of refrigerent into the system, then pressurize it with nitrogen (in this case about 150 psi for the low and high side), this will sometimes make it easier to find the leak with the electronic detector, then pin point it with soap bubbles.
One other trick is if you have a little bit of R22, use this for the trace gas as it is easier to pick up on the electronic leak detector than R134A.
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by frozone:
Hello
I am in the commercial refrigeration trade for 25 years and although have only worked on maybe three automotive systems, one way we look for a hard to find leak in a small system is to introduce a small amount of refrigerent into the system, then pressurize it with nitrogen (in this case about 150 psi for the low and high side), this will sometimes make it easier to find the leak with the electronic detector, then pin point it with soap bubbles.
One other trick is if you have a little bit of R22, use this for the trace gas as it is easier to pick up on the electronic leak detector than R134A.
This is good information, and I'm going to remember it, but very carefully. In the automotive trade there is a huge issue about mixing gases when they are recovered, and we must recover everything, not just allow it to vent into the atmosphere. It is very costly for a shop to have their recovery equipment cleaned up if the gasses are mixed. There are also huge fines if caught venting directly to the atmosphere.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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