my response here is almost not worth posting, since i've been trying to be productive at work while also pondering on this subject. so, if there's a lack of coherence or a lack of a direct answer to the question of hand - my apologies. i don't really have much of a point, other than to question the thought that frequent redesigns are unmerited, represent poor business sense, and are cost-prohibitive - and to point out that the examples shown don't necessarily back up your argument. I think the market is fickle, and in order to keep products at the forefront of the buying public's thought process, frequent updates are necessary. gotta pay to play, so to speak.

that's not to say that wholesale from-the-ground-up redesigns are necessary on every model every 4-6 years, but on some models it could well be the case.

Originally posted by Slacker SAV:

My point is that there is a significant difference in redesigning a car and completely revamping it from the ground up.



obviously a simple reskin is not comparable to the investment in a totally new platform....but updates and tweaks to the platform are often hailed as being revised enough to almost qualify as "all new", and at some point it just becomes a semantic issue. i think that if a manufacturer has a platform that's still competitive and not functionally outdated, simple tweaks like structural reinforcement or wheelbase modifications or things like that can increase its viable shelf life by a model cycle or so. however, when something has proven to be uncompetitive and becomes a darling of the rental industry and loss-leader ads....perhaps more capital should be directed its way to try to increase its viability in the market.

i hate to belabor the point, since this has really gone beyond the merits and faults of a VUE, but....i will anyway. on with the thread hijack!

Originally posted by Slacker SAV:
Camry: I haven't seen any spy shots for a new Camry. And while it may well be true that there is a new one on the way, I highly doubt Toyota will toss away a platform that it just rolled out in 2002. The lifespan of a platform is significantly longer than the lifespan of the way the exterior looks.



a quick google search for camry spy shots turned up a few hits on the '07, due out in early '06. no idea as to how deep the redesign goes, but i suspect that it will probably more of an evolution than a ground-up redesign.

Originally posted by Slacker SAV:
What you say probably holds true for the Honda Civic, but the only spyshots and CG images I've seen for it concerning a 2006 model are that of the Si model. It isn't likely that Honda is going to debut the most sporting model of the Civic lineup first. They are likely going to come out with a basic bland model this fall and the Si will follow the following model year. Is it going to be on a new platform or will it remain on the 7th gen? I'm interested to see how it competes to current new cars to the compact market such as the Chevrolet Cobalt and Kia Spectra, among others.



semantics or not, it's at least being called the 8th-gen civic, fwiw. new platform or evolved and tweaked? no idea - probably the latter, but i also don't think it's just a new skin sitting on the old unibody. sedan to be on dealer lots in the fall, Si coupe to debut in production form at this year's SEMA show. edmunds and honda's websites don't indicate an actual on-sale date, but from what i understand it's imminent - not a year or more away. could be wrong, but i just don't think they're going to sit on it that long.

Originally posted by Slacker SAV:
There are many, many more cars that I can add to the list that have once gone more than 4-6 years without a platform change, and some without significant redesign at all:

Dodge Ram 1994-2002
Ford Taurus 1996-2005
Dodge Viper 1992-2002
Chevrolet Cavalier 1994-2005
Chevrolet Corvette C4 1984-1997
Acura Integra 1995-2002
Honda NSX 1991-current (if still in production)
Ford Mustang (ahem...26 years?)
Dodge Neon 1995-2005
Mercedes Benz E-Class 1996-2003



dodge ram - it's a truck. trucks typically have longer lifespans than cars. however, with the proliferation of new models on the full-size truck market, i'd be surprised if their average shelf life didn't start shrinking a bit just to stay competitive.
taurus - the last several years of its life were heavily incentivized and fleet-saled. hardly a good example.
viper- it's a niche model with very limited sales. they didn't make enough of them to have them go stale on dealer lots, so frequent redesigns weren't really necessary. adding the GTS bodystyle, the ACR models, and a few other tweaks were enough to keep it desirable over its lifespan.
cavalier - this is supposed to be an argument for why it's OK to leave the design as-is for a decade? this is (was) one of the single crappiest cars on the market for the majority of its lifespan!
C4 vette - times change. 15-20 years ago, competition wasn't as fierce and didn't necessarily require such frequent ground-up redesigns for halo/niche cars to remain desirable.
integra - i was surprised honda let this one stay as-is for so long, actually. i kept expecting a redesign and yet it kept soldiering along - but i guess popularity and competency made a refresh less necessary, and plus i suppose they were putting their efforts into other models at the time (MDX/pilot, odyssey, accord, etc.)
NSX - again, a niche car, not a volume sales producer. while very competent and still a great performer, it has clearly been outclassed by current mid-level exotics and is really past its due date. guess honda doesn't feel that market merits their resources being dumped into it right now....<shrug>
mustang - another example of what not to do, considering the volume of complaints against the outdated chassis dating back nearly a decade. they managed to keep selling 'em by virtue of bang-for-the-buck, styling, and american partiality....but its faults had been long exposed with no real fixes until the '05 came along.
neon - eh, just another not-so-competitive, incentivized car that competes only on value and american partiality moreso than genuine competency or superiority.
e-class - eh, that's not *that* much past the shorter cycle we're discussing.


Originally posted by Slacker SAV:
And there's more. There's also cars that seemed to be completely redone overnight. The Infiniti M45 comes to mind as it just rolled out into showrooms as a second-gen model when the original was brand new in just 2003.



actually, the M45 was just a japanese market nissan that was brought over here as a stop-gap move to fill an obvious 5-series-size hole in the infiniti lineup between the 3-series-fighting G35 and the much larger Q45. it had already been out in japan for a few years and was already nearing the end of its lifespan, but before it was scrap-worthy nissan figured they could slap an infiniti badge on it and sell a few here in the US.

Originally posted by Slacker SAV:
I could go on and on, but honestly, I'm bored with this now.
-SAV



sorry to have brought your scintillating intellect down to such a humdrum level. i'm in a particularly anal mood today, and i just felt like being contentious on what may be admittedly minor errors and misinformation.

blake --former CSVT owner-- MINE: 2002 jeep grand cherokee limited 4x4 - stone white/taupe HERS: 2005 acura TL 5AT non-navi - satin silver/quartz GARAGE ORNAMENT: 1962 chevy C10 fleetside pickup - tan/rust