holycowsvtpaul, we are completely aware of your disdain for for christanity and jesus christ specifically but what we don't know is wth this has to do with sex. what you want to prove is a whole other thread.

for anyone who wants to dismiss the rules of living set forth in the christan bible because of their disbelief in the bible this debate is over. there is nothing more to be said to you. screw whom ever you want whenever you want with impunity.

for those simply wanting to place blame look no further as i am here for you too. you can blame, george w bush, ronald reagan, republicans, concervatives, christanity, the bible, all organized religion, the wealthy, men, americans, california, the red states, the blue states, the media, the press, talk radio, the pope, all popes, mother teresa(sp?), prohibition, antiprostitution laws, drug laws, the u.n. and the kama sutra.

now that we have settled that...

for those of us who want to discuss the original question:


Originally posted by neelnug:
When did sex become evil, wrong, secretive, terrible, etc etc etc.




sex came under suspicion the moment there were enough humans to have differing opinions on what is right and wrong. over the years majority opinion has teetered toward one side or the other but there has always been basically two sides. currently you are seeing a slight wobble back towards "less open", for lack of a better phrase right now, since the janet jackson breast exposure at superbowl half time. religion, regarless of validity or authenticity, has alot to do with it. the bible in its various iterations promotes a happy active sex life between a husband and wife and abstinence when one is not married. the bible goes even further and tells of sex acts one should not engage in. people who follow the bible's teachings clearly fall in the "less open" view, but not all of them are prudes as american pop culture would have us believe. on the other side of the table we have people who think that an orgasm is by far not the worst thing one person and do to or give another and should be engaged in whenever two consenting people of appropriate age agree.

Originally posted by neelnug:
1)Why is everyone intent on shielding young people from it? 2)Why does the church make it sacred and evil if committed (yea like a crime) before marriage?




1)there are alot of reasons. many young people simply aren't emotionally ready for a sexual relationship. as adults we know what we are getting ourselves into, or we should anyways, whereas a teen simlply doesn't most of the time. the way we are teaching young people definately leaves something to be desired. alot of improvement is needed and it is the job of parents to do this teaching including but not limited to when, why, where, how, safety practices including abstinence, emotional consequences and physical consequences. and don't forget about sexual predators ranging from rapists, child molestors, and people looking to put another notch on the belt at any cost. as a parent it is your duty to protect your child and this is one of those areas. unfortunately there is a right way to protect young people as well as a wrong way.

2)sacred or a sin depends on the context. its kinda like racing being bad on the street but ok on the track. the commandments set forth rules to be followed and this is how masturbation comes into the evil camp. example, is it your wife or your neighbors wife you are thinking of? is there a medical reason for it like artificial insemination? religion puts forth a clearly defined set of rules by which we must live our lives. if you choose not to accept these rules then you can make up your own. you are always free to choose whatever you want. just remember there are consequences both good and bad for everything.


00 black/tan svt, #2052 of 2150, born 2/1/00 formerly known as my csvt "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King, Jr.