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It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, then stated that Porsche never touched the mazda engine, so I was wondering where you were going with this..
Ray
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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This thread needs to die!
1998 Mystique LS:
-2.5 Duratec ATX
-Vibrant White
--------------------
=Pics=
=Info=
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Originally posted by Ray:
It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, I never stated that!!
Then stated that Porsche never touched the mazda engine, so I was wondering where you were going with this.. Porsche has never touched hte mazda spec 2.5 liter motor!! I don't understand what your trying to prove here?
Ray
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
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Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Originally posted by Ray:
It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, I never stated that!!
Originally posted by Mkingracing:
the 2.5 in the probe is a mazda spec motor. We just incorporated into our ford cars after we bought 90% of mazda's stock. Doing so we have been capable of using mazda engines and there copyrights. Since than we took there technology and transformed it into what we have now a duretec.
You didn't say that ford took the mazda engine, and used it, but transformed it significantly?
I didn't ever say Porsche touched the Mazda engine.. I stated that they were responsible for a portion of the DESIGN of the duratec.. however, you were indicating that the duratec is nothing more than the Mazda engine that's been changed.
WOW.. I am SO lost, aren't I?
Ray
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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Originally posted by Ray:
Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Originally posted by Ray:
It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, I never stated that!!
Originally posted by Mkingracing:
the 2.5 in the probe is a mazda spec motor. We just incorporated into our ford cars after we bought 90% of mazda's stock. Doing so we have been capable of using mazda engines and there copyrights. Since than we took there technology and transformed it into what we have now a duretec.
You didn't say that ford took the mazda engine, and used it, but transformed it significantly?
I didn't ever say Porsche touched the Mazda engine.. I stated that they were responsible for a portion of the DESIGN of the duratec.. however, you were indicating that the duratec is nothing more than the Mazda engine that's been changed.
WOW.. I am SO lost, aren't I?
Ray
Ok, this is boring me. good conversation i am just getting to the point we are running in circles!!
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
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I don't think he is trying to argue with you, but I'm somewhat in the same boat as him, so please just explain. Did you mean that the 2.5 in our car evolved from the mazda engine or not? To me it looked as if you said that, so I was just wondering where Porsche played a role in that because it has been stated before ford got the engine from a porsche design (i think). sorry if my first statement led to some confusion. 
Last edited by DopePope; 05/18/05 04:06 AM.
Goonz12: <---tries on mommy's cloths
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Originally posted by DopePope:
I don't think he is trying to argue with you, but I'm somewhat in the same boat as him, so please just explain. Did you mean that the 2.5 in our car evolved from the mazda engine or not? To me it looked as if you said that, so I was just wondering where Porsche played a role in that because it has been stated before ford got the engine from a porsche design (i think). sorry if my first statement led to some confusion.
Pope, I am glad that you saw that.
I wasn't trying to argue, I was just thoroughly confused at to what he was trying to convey. I saw, nearly verbatim, that he said the aformentioned statements, but when they were brought up, he simply said that he was bored.. 
Anyway..
Ray
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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Originally posted by Ray:
Originally posted by DopePope:
I don't think he is trying to argue with you, but I'm somewhat in the same boat as him, so please just explain. Did you mean that the 2.5 in our car evolved from the mazda engine or not? To me it looked as if you said that, so I was just wondering where Porsche played a role in that because it has been stated before ford got the engine from a porsche design (i think). sorry if my first statement led to some confusion.
Pope, I am glad that you saw that.
I wasn't trying to argue, I was just thoroughly confused at to what he was trying to convey. I saw, nearly verbatim, that he said the aformentioned statements, but when they were brought up, he simply said that he was bored..
Anyway..
Ray
Ok what kinda statment is that, did i really say after you first replied that i was bored. No i explained my self then you wrote back then i explained again then you wrote back. Am i speaking greek too you!! After all those times yes i am getting bored!! Cause from what i see you go aroundand jsut hassel people for no reason.
Ok when ford started to get ideas for a new engine they turned to mazada for there 4 cylinders. Like i stated ford got the 2.5 duratec version idea from mazda. Sorry let me clearify, ford did not take the mazda motor and drop into the contour. They desinged a whole new motor. Transformed was a bad word. But i have never heard that porsche had a role with the 2.5 design. Porchse doesn't even like ford. And that statment is a fact!!
Me getting bored is that maybe i am not getting across right or either you are not understanding me.
Either way Ford has used mazda engines in the past. After years of usage ford turned arounnd and decided to design a new one, instead of paying money to mazda to build plants to produce there spec 2.5 motor. Ford then decided to build ther own version of 2.5 and decided to release the duratec. IF prochse had a role in the 2.5 design i have no idea. Never heard of it in my life. I have to ask others who worked at ford (cousins) who are engineers for over 30 years wether of not they got help. The 2.5 was not porchses idea. It was fords!!
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
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Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Either way Ford has used mazda engines in the past. After years of usage ford turned arounnd and decided to design a new one, instead of paying money to mazda to build plants to produce there spec 2.5 motor. Ford then decided to build ther own version of 2.5 and decided to release the duratec. IF prochse had a role in the 2.5 design i have no idea. Never heard of it in my life. I have to ask others who worked at ford (cousins) who are engineers for over 30 years wether of not they got help. The 2.5 was not porchses idea. It was fords!!
read me 1
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00 black/tan svt, #2052 of 2150, born 2/1/00
formerly known as my csvt
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Ok when ford started to get ideas for a new engine they turned to mazada for there 4 cylinders. Like i stated ford got the 2.5 duratec version idea from mazda. Sorry let me clearify, ford did not take the mazda motor and drop into the contour. They desinged a whole new motor. Transformed was a bad word. But i have never heard that porsche had a role with the 2.5 design. Porchse doesn't even like ford. And that statment is a fact!!
Me getting bored is that maybe i am not getting across right or either you are not understanding me.
Either way Ford has used mazda engines in the past. After years of usage ford turned arounnd and decided to design a new one, instead of paying money to mazda to build plants to produce there spec 2.5 motor. Ford then decided to build ther own version of 2.5 and decided to release the duratec. IF prochse had a role in the 2.5 design i have no idea. Never heard of it in my life. I have to ask others who worked at ford (cousins) who are engineers for over 30 years wether of not they got help. The 2.5 was not porchses idea. It was fords!!
Wow, I was hoping to stay out of this for fear of angry, flaming participants turning their torches towards me, but the pathological spread of misinformation here offends my sensibilities...so I have to contribute.
The 'KL' Series Mazda V6, whose 2.5 Litre version made its debut in the 1993 626/MX6/Probe, and Ford's 1994 'Duratec V6' share little in the way of design features other than having 6 cylinders, 4 cams, and lots of valves. The Duratec runs a chain to independent cams on each bank, whereas the KL runs a belt to 1 cam on each bank which is direct-geared to counterrotate its complement (same with Toyota's belt V6's). The Duratec has roller followers for valve actuation. The KL uses direct tappets. The Duratec's 'dual-runner' air induction system is markedly different in concept, construction, and operation from Mazda's Variable Resonance Induction System (VRIS) -- if anything, one can speculate the Mazda version was lifted from Toyota's late 80's 2VZ-FE 2.5 Litre V6 (of remarkably similar design topology--air induction, belt-drive, valve actuation--to the KL except for its iron-block), whereas Ford's design for twin runners with butterfly valve air management evolved from the Yamaha-designed 3.0 Litre SHO motor. The water pumps are located in completely different positions on each motor.
As has been discussed at length on this forum for years now, Porsche Engineering was contracted by Ford Motor Company to develop the Duratec 'prototype'. Cosworth weighed in with its licensing to Ford of the well-known rollover, low-pressure, precision sand casting technique for the block and heads. The Porsche 'prototype' in its original incarnation is not the engine we know as the Duratec -- it underwent a certain amount of 're-engineering' by Ford before production began (a sore subject around here), but retained the Cosworth casting technique and many design features native to the prototype.
But one needn't look specifically at Porsche Engineering's involvement with the Duratec or the wide range of design differences between the two engines...the simple fact that the KL and the Duratec were placed into production within a year of each other--and at least two years prior to Ford's acquiring its 33% controlling interest in Mazda--means that there wouldn't have been time for Ford to 'copy' or 'transform' Mazda's technology to another design. Both engines were in the thick of their design, development, and testing schedules almost simultaneously.
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
Was: '00 Black/Tan SVT Contour #560 - Sold 3/26/03
Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
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