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Joined: Mar 2003
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Originally posted by EternalOne:
...have you ever served in the Military, or your country in any fashion? What have YOU done to deserve the very freedoms that you enjoy daily, besides [censored] when the real men take on the fight to protect your freedoms?
Ouch. But then again, it was provoked.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Sadam was constantly breaking the sanctions placed on him and his country from the first Gulf War.
He also routinely shot at our aircraft flying over.
Both are cause for war.
The WMDs & terrorists were simply icing on the cake.
Frank McCoy aka Mod-deth aka Mid Life Crisis aka SVT Doood aka mcgainer is a SCAM ARTIST
Pre98 Zetec - Some Mods
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,899
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Originally posted by EternalOne:
Talking in circles might get democrats outta crap on TV, but it won't work here man.
So you seriously believe that the US Gov't, for the past 10 years, has seeded foreign intelligence agencies with false information so we could attack them now? Is that what you're saying?
E1
Yes because ol' Dubya made sure that they started seeding these false allegations to foreign intelligence years ago so he could be a wartime president today. 
Getting into a war that was unpopular according to political polls. Thats why you have to understand the confusion on the left. They got so used to a president that governed by what was popular on the polls and Sunday Morning political discussion forums that they didn't know what the hell to do when they encountered a president that didn't, and therefore they couldn't control with popularity polls and Ted Turner.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,676
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by EternalOne:
Now my question to you, have you ever served in the Military, or your country in any fashion? What have YOU done to deserve the very freedoms that you enjoy daily, besides [censored] when the real men take on the fight to protect your freedoms?
E1
So are you saying that every person in the US needs to fight for his/her inalienable rights and freedoms? To call someone un-American or say that someone is not deserving of their freedom because they do not agree with government or has not served in the military is anything but American. Is the only way one can criticize the country through military service?
I hear you about the generalizations, to often people from both sides group masses of people into one of two categories when people clearly cannot be classified this way. I am tired of the idea that you are un-American if you do not support the knee-jerk reactions of the administration. Clearly something should have been done about Saddam but I do not believe it should have been piggy-backed with Terrorism. He was a bad person and most of the world wanted to do something about him. I just fear that all we have done is provoke more people to hate the west. The problem is now we have set a precedent that preemptive attacks are just if a nation/state feel threatened by another state. But I digress. Criticizing the government is very American and anyone who does it with logical thought is just as much a patriot as the soldier that serves his/her country.
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Sadam threatened the lives of U.S. inspectors and he tried to shoot down U.S. aircraft. I think Iraq will be better off without him. Weren't most of the 911 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia? It seems like Saudi Arabia should be the first place to look for terrorists. This is a good article about how a judge in Saudi Arabia supports terrorism: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7645118/
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Captain Impound Boy
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Captain Impound Boy
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who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
seriously.... Im sure you where ever in Iraq and verified no WMD's right?
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
Criticizing the government is very American and anyone who does it with logical thought is just as much a patriot as the soldier that serves his/her country.
I agree, but most on the leftern side of this argument are disqualified by the 'logical thought' part of your statement.
Oh, and sitting at a university in Austria and criticizing the United States is ueber-cool. 
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Originally posted by supertouringmike:
but at least the Dem's try to help the little guys as well as themselves.
omfg. i don't even know where to begin with this one. give a man a fish or teach him to fish. hmm...i wonder which is better?
00 black/tan svt, #2052 of 2150, born 2/1/00
formerly known as my csvt
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Oh, and sitting at a university in Austria and criticizing the United States is ueber-cool.
What is that supposed to mean? I mean I know it's cool but are you being sarcastic?  I am here to get an education Davo. Would you suggest that Americans who are interested in the international system not be such an international city? Most of the international community meets here in Europe or in the US, this is just as good a place as any to learn how to get things done on the international realm. Another note, I am taught by Americans and Austrians alike. The IR head who teaches is more conservative than most IR teachers I had in the US. It is healthy to be outside of the US for a bit. You can see why Europeans are so critical of the US and it's normally not always justified. I usually end up defending the US when talking to Europeans, but they are not all as liberal as you think. Also I go to Uni with several people from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and a few other places in the middle-east so I also get a little of their perspective. To Europeans and Arabs (from what I have gathered from them) what the US is doing seems like Colonialism, from this view you can understand why they are so critical. I mean it is using military power to occupy a country? Still, I believe it is much to early to know if good or bad is going to come out of this. I do not believe there has been a rash of democratization. Lebanon has been fighting for its freedom for decades and its newly found drive was in response to the killing of Rafik Hariri. But again I digress.
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Veteran CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
So are you saying that every person in the US needs to fight for his/her inalienable rights and freedoms? To call someone un-American or say that someone is not deserving of their freedom because they do not agree with government or has not served in the military is anything but American. Is the only way one can criticize the country through military service?
You obviously did not read my full statement, or you misread it to mean only military service. Let me clarify, I stated, "have you ever served in the Military, or your country in any fashion", meaning in the military, or a civil service job of ANY KIND.
Once you've been involved in the process, and "see how things work" you tend to have a much more enlightened opinion. If, on the other hand, you've done nothing but [censored] and moan, while not contributing to an overall solution, then yes, I feel you have no right to complain. At that point, you are not only uninformed about what you are complaining about, but you have done nothing to work towards a solution, either.
It's every Americans job to monitor the government, that's part of what our country was founded upon. "By the people, for the people" ring a bell?
The fact is, people like RT will do anything and everything to lamblast the President on this, because they don't agree with the actions, or the means. Never mind the facts that this was a thorn in our governments side for the past 10+ years, with multiple violations that could have allowed us to go to war in the past, had Clinton not simply bowed to the polls.
The problem today has become our media, I believe. In the past, our government did what they had to do, when they had to do it, for the benefit of our people. Now, our government has to "tell all" to the media, who then twists and turns the stories to suit their overall agenda. (Right or left, I make no distinction here.) How many other wars in history have been televised globally, within minutes of the action taking place? I can tell you, I was in the first Gulf War, I stepped foot in Iraq, and I didn't have to worry about a reporter catching me killing an enemy on film, or the PR nightmare it would cause. Now our soldiers have to not only do their jobs, but also act as PR people for America to the world. Buncha BS.
E1
1999 Cougar - Supercharged 3L
1992 Talon TSi - AWD Turbo
1992 Eclipse GSX - AWD Turbo
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