Originally posted by Pete D:
Originally posted by Pigeon:
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Try building a top quality product, one that can compete with the current generation of Hondas and Toyotas, not something like the new Pontiac G6 - a car that's barely up to the bar set by the last generation Accord and Camry instead of setting the bar higher than those cars are. Then you won't have to tack on several thousand $$ of incentives to sell your cars, they'll sell themselves at or near MSRP and cover that pension burden.

Scott



I don't agree. Even if the G6 or whatever they came out with was better than a Camry or Accord they would still have a hard time getting customers away from the Japanese competition, a very hard time.

If they wanted to make a car that is better, it would cost more money, as sigma pointed out, GM has a lot of money going into pensions and whatnot on each car. If GM had the extra $1000 to spend per car I imagine they could make a very competative product.



I agree.

If Detroit started making indestructible cars today it would take them at least 10 years to really gain a significant portion of the market back again. People just aren't swayed that easily or that quickly. Car buying is practically a generational habit, damn near almost genetic sometimes. And GM doesn't have 10 years left in it. Not without government assistance.

For 20 years we've been swamped with "Japanese Quality is Superb" and "European Quality is Superb", and GM probably takes the brunt of the "American Quality is Crap" argument despite the fact that General Motors surpasses every European make and most Japanese makes in terms of overall reliability. Are GMs cars largely boring and unexciting? Yes. But so are Hondas and Toyotas.

And the press doesn't help much. With rare exception the media dotes after the Japanese carmakers as if they can do no wrong. When Ford announced it made $1.2B in profit last quarter the press focused on a couple models that didn't meet expectations, barely even mentioning the fact that Ford made double what Wall Street expected it to make. The media raves about the Japanese taking the forefront of hybrid technology when Ford is at least as strong as any of them are being on the forefront for over 20 years. Toyota and Nissan barely even touch the stuff. When a US automobile gets recalls or bad safety tests the media openly rails on them, to the point where it's apparently worthy of the 6 o'clock evening news. But when the same problems occur with Japanese automakers they're either covered up by stories of how poorly American automakers did or just not mentioned at all.

And it's not like I'm anti-Japanese automaker or something. I love Mazdas, like most of Nissan's lineup a great deal, and although they're not Japanese, I can appreciate the work that Hyundai and Kia have done to turn estabish themselves and formidable competitors in the marketplace. I just notice that stuff an awful lot.

2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX Webpage 2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX