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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by sigma:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by Pigeon:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
i am so glad that the company i work for invested millions of dollars in a fund just for pensions...a very nice investment that looks to be enough to last for a long time....or at least long enough for me to get mine  ..
Just so long as the company doesn't decide to raid the pension plan...
Scott
nope won't happen....we own far too many other companies and have too strong of holdings in too may others to ever come to needeing that moneyin the foreseeable future...just the interest made on the amount in the pension fund is enough to cover the pensions for that year....
That's the story behind every failed pension plan. Never think that you are invincible to the same problems that others have encountered.
if you say so.....my company posts profits in the BILLIONS every year...and ALL the other companies we own make huge profits as well....like i said the interest alone made off the pension fund is more than enough to pay the pensions every year....and there are millions of dollars invested in that pension fund...we have been able to operate for 30 years without having to resort to dipping into that fund,and i see no reason why it won't be there in 30 more years...
we could function for several years without posting profits just off what a couple of our holdings make...
So? You just described almost every decently-sized corporation in America. Do you really think you're so invincible to the exact same problems as everyone else? I've done work for FedEx before and I can't recall anything about a corporate brain-washing program. You must be wearing the biggest and darkest rose-colored glasses there is.
You think Enron didn't post huge profits for years? You think WorldCom didn't post huge profits for years? Airline pensions have failed (gov't just took over $10B in pensions from United couple days ago), Steel industry pensions have failed -- HUGE corporations that in just a very short span of time just went belly-up. Do you think that every company that just up and died was on that path for 20 years or something?
[censored] happens, man. Everything you take for granted could be gone in the blink of an eye.
Hell, just look at Social Security. That's one that almost everyone can relate to. At one time Social Security generated more interest than was paid out and it hadn't been dipped into in decades. The picture isn't quite as rosy right now.
Just wake up and smell the coffee, man. Stop eating from that big plate of [censored] that your HR department is feeding you. Every person whose entire life is ruined by a company fallout, millions of people in this country right now, were people who thought exactly the same thing that you do. That your company is strong, that they'll be around forever, and they'll take care of you when you retire.
I work in the field of logistics and industrial engineering. I've done a bit of work for FedEx in the past and really admire a lot of work that they've done. But to think that they couldn't succumb to the same fate as others is just downright ignorant. You know the saying -- The bigger they are, The harder they fall.
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Originally posted by sigma:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by sigma:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by Pigeon:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
i am so glad that the company i work for invested millions of dollars in a fund just for pensions...a very nice investment that looks to be enough to last for a long time....or at least long enough for me to get mine ..
Just so long as the company doesn't decide to raid the pension plan...
Scott
nope won't happen....we own far too many other companies and have too strong of holdings in too may others to ever come to needeing that moneyin the foreseeable future...just the interest made on the amount in the pension fund is enough to cover the pensions for that year....
That's the story behind every failed pension plan. Never think that you are invincible to the same problems that others have encountered.
if you say so.....my company posts profits in the BILLIONS every year...and ALL the other companies we own make huge profits as well....like i said the interest alone made off the pension fund is more than enough to pay the pensions every year....and there are millions of dollars invested in that pension fund...we have been able to operate for 30 years without having to resort to dipping into that fund,and i see no reason why it won't be there in 30 more years...
we could function for several years without posting profits just off what a couple of our holdings make...
So? You just described almost every decently-sized corporation in America. Do you really think you're so invincible to the exact same problems as everyone else? I've done work for FedEx before and I can't recall anything about a corporate brain-washing program. You must be wearing the biggest and darkest rose-colored glasses there is.
You think Enron didn't post huge profits for years? You think WorldCom didn't post huge profits for years? Airline pensions have failed (gov't just took over $10B in pensions from United couple days ago), Steel industry pensions have failed -- HUGE corporations that in just a very short span of time just went belly-up. Do you think that every company that just up and died was on that path for 20 years or something?
[censored] happens, man. Everything you take for granted could be gone in the blink of an eye.
Hell, just look at Social Security. That's one that almost everyone can relate to. At one time Social Security generated more interest than was paid out and it hadn't been dipped into in decades. The picture isn't quite as rosy right now.
Just wake up and smell the coffee, man. Stop eating from that big plate of [censored] that your HR department is feeding you. Every person whose entire life is ruined by a company fallout, millions of people in this country right now, were people who thought exactly the same thing that you do. That your company is strong, that they'll be around forever, and they'll take care of you when you retire.
I work in the field of logistics and industrial engineering. I've done a bit of work for FedEx in the past and really admire a lot of work that they've done. But to think that they couldn't succumb to the same fate as others is just downright ignorant. You know the saying -- The bigger they are, The harder they fall.
i'm not brainwashed about anything...and what because you did some it work that makes you a financial expert?????anyways it doesn't really matter if i get a pension or not my rsp,osp,and other investments will more than cover my retirement my pension will just be extra money...
and i never said it COULDN'T happen i just said it is not LIKELY to happen,unless all our holdings and other companies all go belly up at once,which i don't see happening in my lifetime...too bad there won't be a ceg around in 20 years so i can tell you i told you so when i start getting my pension check 
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Originally posted by Pete D:
Originally posted by Pigeon:
[
Try building a top quality product, one that can compete with the current generation of Hondas and Toyotas, not something like the new Pontiac G6 - a car that's barely up to the bar set by the last generation Accord and Camry instead of setting the bar higher than those cars are. Then you won't have to tack on several thousand $$ of incentives to sell your cars, they'll sell themselves at or near MSRP and cover that pension burden.
Scott
I don't agree. Even if the G6 or whatever they came out with was better than a Camry or Accord they would still have a hard time getting customers away from the Japanese competition, a very hard time.
If they wanted to make a car that is better, it would cost more money, as sigma pointed out, GM has a lot of money going into pensions and whatnot on each car. If GM had the extra $1000 to spend per car I imagine they could make a very competative product.
They have an extra $1k to spend - actually $3k+. Look at what they spend in incentives and tell me that those funds wouldn't be better spent on product development and/or beter quality materials and/or better manufacturing quality.
Even though it'll take time to win back market share it can only be done by either being the cheapest alternative (think GM and Hyundai switching places) or having the best quality product at a competitve price (think Honda). If you keep building average at best cars and then kill them with incentives you reinforce the notion that the car isn't worth buying on its own, it must be sold on the cheap.
Scott
Troll! '99 BMW 328i
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I agree that if GM started making fantastic, ultra reliable cars today that it would take 10 years to turn things around profit wise. But we have to face facts, GM has made and continues to make cars that aren't up to the competition in many cases, trucks excluded. Ridden in a 2004 Impala lately and then compared it to a 2004 Camry or Accord? The two Japanese cars have the Impala beat out in almost every way, build quality, fit and finsih, ergonomics, interior quality, you name it. It's not just in that class either. Been in an Equinox, it's a piece of crap compared to a RAV4 a CRV or a Forester. Compare a Corolla or Civic to a Cavailer, a Blazer to a 4-runner or a Pilot. Hell even compare any GM minivan to a Sienna or a Odessy, and tell me the general public, (not car nuts) will say the GM is superior in any case.
GM's own decision to not truly compete with the Japanese auto makers, coupled with their decisons that have made their customers downright despise their cars will be their downfall.
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Quote:
i'm not brainwashed about anything...
Coulda fooled me. You sound like some sort of corporate morale expert. Ranting and raving about how FedEx is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They don't do anything different pension-wise than almost every other Fortune 1000 company does.
Quote:
and i never said it COULDN'T happen i just said it is not LIKELY to happen,unless all our holdings and other companies all go belly up at once,which i don't see happening in my lifetime
No one else ever saw it happening in their lifetime either. Companies a lot bigger and more diversified than FedEx is have gone belly up.
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and i never said it COULDN'T happen i just said it is not LIKELY to happen,
Really? Your exact words were "nope won't happen". I take no exception to the fact that it's not likely to happen. But to walk around with rose-colored glasses on rather than seeing the world for what it is is truly ignorant.
Quote:
too bad there won't be a ceg around in 20 years so i can tell you i told you so when i start getting my pension check
Getting your pension check doesn't make you right nor does it make me wrong. I never said you wouldn't get your check, of course the chances are good that you will. I said that you shouldn't blindly rely on it.
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Originally posted by red99sesport:
I agree that if GM started making fantastic, ultra reliable cars today that it would take 10 years to turn things around profit wise. But we have to face facts, GM has made and continues to make cars that aren't up to the competition in many cases, trucks excluded. Ridden in a 2004 Impala lately and then compared it to a 2004 Camry or Accord? The two Japanese cars have the Impala beat out in almost every way, build quality, fit and finsih, ergonomics, interior quality, you name it. It's not just in that class either. Been in an Equinox, it's a piece of crap compared to a RAV4 a CRV or a Forester. Compare a Corolla or Civic to a Cavailer, a Blazer to a 4-runner or a Pilot. Hell even compare any GM minivan to a Sienna or a Odessy, and tell me the general public, (not car nuts) will say the GM is superior in any case.
GM's own decision to not truly compete with the Japanese auto makers, coupled with their decisons that have made their customers downright despise their cars will be their downfall.
In the order of fairness... Subaru is largely a part of GM, just like Isuzu and Suzuki.
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In a nutshell, GM needs to rethink its branding, then engineering, then quality.
They need to set the bar for themselves insanely high and keep above it for the next decade or two, if it means brands get thrown under the bus (Buick, Saturn, Saab), then do so. The brand overlap is just disgusting too.
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GM hasn't screwed Subarus up that badly yet, and if GM wanted to sell a good small SUV under the Chevy brand, they should have rebadged a Forester or a RAV4. They used to do it all the time, the entire GEO line was rebadged japanese cars, and the Chevy Prizm was an outright Corolla. They even designed a special Chevy bage for that car that was in the shape of the oval Toyota badge just so they didn't have to make a different grill for the Chevy. The sad thing was that they didcontinued the Prizm and kept that POS Sunfire and Cavalier line.
I also agree that GM has too much overlap and that their branding is disgusting. That new Saab 9-7x is a Trailblazer for God's sake. What is with these Opels that they're trying to sell as Caddys. They need to ditch Saab, Subaru, Saturn (although they'll never get rid of this, the spent way too much on it), Buick, and they might as well kill Pontiac while they're at it.
They screwed Pontiac up worst of all IMHO. They're supposed to be the Youth and Excitement division of GM, and they don't have anything exciting after this model year. With no Bonneville, Firebird, GTO, Grand Prix coupe, or a two door small car (Sunfire or Grand-Am), all they have to sell is a Minivan (SV6), the Aztek, and the Vibe, oh and let's not forget the G6. GM is "going" to give Pontiac some new two door cars, but I'm thinking Pontiac will be gone long before they get around to it.
Basically, GM needs to undergo massive restructuring of their entire line. They should divest themselves of the brands that don't fit into their best interests, and focus on the cars that they can sell here. Most of all, they should stop making such asenine decisions and build a quality car that the American public actually wants to buy. They need to make cars that people would buy without rebates.
Last edited by red99sesport; 04/25/05 08:00 PM.
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
i'm not brainwashed about anything...and what because you did some it work that makes you a financial expert?????anyways it doesn't really matter if i get a pension or not my rsp,osp,and other investments will more than cover my retirement my pension will just be extra money...
and i never said it COULDN'T happen i just said it is not LIKELY to happen,unless all our holdings and other companies all go belly up at once,which i don't see happening in my lifetime...too bad there won't be a ceg around in 20 years so i can tell you i told you so when i start getting my pension check
you realize we are talking about a company that had to PAY $1.9 billion to GET OUT of a contract to buy Fiat and stipulated that they would buy 100% shares of the company even if it didn't meet its earnings measures and was negative on cash. i realize that i am relatively young and new to business, but an intro accounting class would tell you that this was a dumb deal. just think of how GM's 1st quarter would have looker if they didn't get themselves into that "strategic partnership."
And let's talk about that partnership, shall we? they partnered with Fiat to work on the development of small car gas and diesel engines, small car suspensions, and "overall quality." Let me reflect on how often Fiat was #1 in quality......
face it, the company is run by monkeys. a group of art students from RISD with Finance 101 classes could see better "synergies" than GM on a sunny day.
if i were you, i'd move my money into a 401k managed by a third party like Fidelity. #1, you'd take some of the burden off of GM, #2, you'd help reduce the risk of losing it all if GM goes the way of Enron in 10 years.
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Originally posted by red99sesport:
GM hasn't screwed Subarus up that badly yet,
its because they dont have a controlling interest in subaru - ne- Fuji Heavy Industries.
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