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Originally posted by Pigeon:
Originally posted by sigma:
Have the government take over their pensions:
Uh, NOOOO!!!! Why the hell should every American taxpayer including ME have to pay the pension bills for a multibillion corporation, one that willingly entered into the obligation to pay those pensions? One that last month paid Fiat $2 Billion to get out of a deal wherein Fiat could have forced GM to buy Fiat's failing automotive operations? Poor, sad GM.
Try building a top quality product, one that can compete with the current generation of Hondas and Toyotas, not something like the new Pontiac G6 - a car that's barely up to the bar set by the last generation Accord and Camry instead of setting the bar higher than those cars are. Then you won't have to tack on several thousand $$ of incentives to sell your cars, they'll sell themselves at or near MSRP and cover that pension burden.
Scott
I never said that I agreed with it, but it is almost certainly going to happen.
But not in a "government taking over pension" plan. But because GM has been seriously considering bankruptcy for some time, even before they posted a $1.1B loss last quarter. GM will declare bankruptcy in the near future, if for no other reason to get out from under those horrible union agreements that it has made in the past. Others are likely to follow suit, particularly Delphi. Faced with hundreds of thousands of US workers no longer having pensions the government will take over the funds.
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
i am so glad that the company i work for invested millions of dollars in a fund just for pensions...a very nice investment that looks to be enough to last for a long time....or at least long enough for me to get mine  ..
Just so long as the company doesn't decide to raid the pension plan...
Scott
Troll! '99 BMW 328i
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by LilStripedRocket:
I thought you worked for the purple people (Fed Up.. I eman, Fed Ex???)
i do so what does that matter?????????????????? 
i've been with the company for 13 years,and in addition to a pension, i have a pretty nice rsp that is company matched each year,that is going to be a nice chunk of change when i retire...
people in charge of investments were smart enough to invest millions of dollars in a fund specifically for retirement,the only thing it is used for...
they also did the same thing for healthcare as well....they have leterally millions of dollars invested in several areas as such,so that we don't have to rely on what profit is made per pkg. to pay for things like tha...very good financial planning, more companies should do things the same way
well, i'm glad their pensions are doing well because their stock has appreciated 0% since about 1970. excluding dividends and inflation, the market has tagged GM a "loser" for 30+ years.
however, if you had invested in GE instead of GM in 1970, you would see 4000% returns, twice S&P, not counting inflation and dividends, of course.
every major industry in the US has had its downfall. railroads, steel, nuclear power, and now, autos. hope you enjoy your pension when your job is in jeopardy.
i think it may be too late for GM unless some serious and drastic changes are put in place. "no one is safe"
For Sale:
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- 1973 Karmann Ghia Convertible w/ Auto-Stick. Needs Restoration. $1200 OBO
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Originally posted by Pigeon:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
i am so glad that the company i work for invested millions of dollars in a fund just for pensions...a very nice investment that looks to be enough to last for a long time....or at least long enough for me to get mine ..
Just so long as the company doesn't decide to raid the pension plan...
Scott
nope won't happen....we own far too many other companies and have too strong of holdings in too may others to ever come to needeing that moneyin the foreseeable future...just the interest made on the amount in the pension fund is enough to cover the pensions for that year....
new,new ride!
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by Pigeon:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
i am so glad that the company i work for invested millions of dollars in a fund just for pensions...a very nice investment that looks to be enough to last for a long time....or at least long enough for me to get mine ..
Just so long as the company doesn't decide to raid the pension plan...
Scott
nope won't happen....we own far too many other companies and have too strong of holdings in too may others to ever come to needeing that moneyin the foreseeable future...just the interest made on the amount in the pension fund is enough to cover the pensions for that year....
That's the story behind every failed pension plan. Never think that you are invincible to the same problems that others have encountered.
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Originally posted by Pigeon:
[
Try building a top quality product, one that can compete with the current generation of Hondas and Toyotas, not something like the new Pontiac G6 - a car that's barely up to the bar set by the last generation Accord and Camry instead of setting the bar higher than those cars are. Then you won't have to tack on several thousand $$ of incentives to sell your cars, they'll sell themselves at or near MSRP and cover that pension burden.
Scott
I don't agree. Even if the G6 or whatever they came out with was better than a Camry or Accord they would still have a hard time getting customers away from the Japanese competition, a very hard time.
If they wanted to make a car that is better, it would cost more money, as sigma pointed out, GM has a lot of money going into pensions and whatnot on each car. If GM had the extra $1000 to spend per car I imagine they could make a very competative product.
"Bros before Hoes" <-- More men need this mentality.
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Originally posted by Pete D:
Originally posted by Pigeon:
[
Try building a top quality product, one that can compete with the current generation of Hondas and Toyotas, not something like the new Pontiac G6 - a car that's barely up to the bar set by the last generation Accord and Camry instead of setting the bar higher than those cars are. Then you won't have to tack on several thousand $$ of incentives to sell your cars, they'll sell themselves at or near MSRP and cover that pension burden.
Scott
I don't agree. Even if the G6 or whatever they came out with was better than a Camry or Accord they would still have a hard time getting customers away from the Japanese competition, a very hard time.
If they wanted to make a car that is better, it would cost more money, as sigma pointed out, GM has a lot of money going into pensions and whatnot on each car. If GM had the extra $1000 to spend per car I imagine they could make a very competative product.
I agree.
If Detroit started making indestructible cars today it would take them at least 10 years to really gain a significant portion of the market back again. People just aren't swayed that easily or that quickly. Car buying is practically a generational habit, damn near almost genetic sometimes. And GM doesn't have 10 years left in it. Not without government assistance.
For 20 years we've been swamped with "Japanese Quality is Superb" and "European Quality is Superb", and GM probably takes the brunt of the "American Quality is Crap" argument despite the fact that General Motors surpasses every European make and most Japanese makes in terms of overall reliability. Are GMs cars largely boring and unexciting? Yes. But so are Hondas and Toyotas.
And the press doesn't help much. With rare exception the media dotes after the Japanese carmakers as if they can do no wrong. When Ford announced it made $1.2B in profit last quarter the press focused on a couple models that didn't meet expectations, barely even mentioning the fact that Ford made double what Wall Street expected it to make. The media raves about the Japanese taking the forefront of hybrid technology when Ford is at least as strong as any of them are being on the forefront for over 20 years. Toyota and Nissan barely even touch the stuff. When a US automobile gets recalls or bad safety tests the media openly rails on them, to the point where it's apparently worthy of the 6 o'clock evening news. But when the same problems occur with Japanese automakers they're either covered up by stories of how poorly American automakers did or just not mentioned at all.
And it's not like I'm anti-Japanese automaker or something. I love Mazdas, like most of Nissan's lineup a great deal, and although they're not Japanese, I can appreciate the work that Hyundai and Kia have done to turn estabish themselves and formidable competitors in the marketplace. I just notice that stuff an awful lot.
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Originally posted by sigma:
I just notice that stuff an awful lot.
your not the only one.
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GM = one nice V8, good automatic transmissions, a terribly BLAND line up across the board.
Oh yeah.
Don't forget cheap build materials and built in squeaks and rattles.
The absolute non-handling is a given except for their flag ship sports cars. (i.e. $$$)
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Originally posted by sigma:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by Pigeon:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
i am so glad that the company i work for invested millions of dollars in a fund just for pensions...a very nice investment that looks to be enough to last for a long time....or at least long enough for me to get mine ..
Just so long as the company doesn't decide to raid the pension plan...
Scott
nope won't happen....we own far too many other companies and have too strong of holdings in too may others to ever come to needeing that moneyin the foreseeable future...just the interest made on the amount in the pension fund is enough to cover the pensions for that year....
That's the story behind every failed pension plan. Never think that you are invincible to the same problems that others have encountered.
if you say so.....my company posts profits in the BILLIONS every year...and ALL the other companies we own make huge profits as well....like i said the interest alone made off the pension fund is more than enough to pay the pensions every year....and there are millions of dollars invested in that pension fund...we have been able to operate for 30 years without having to resort to dipping into that fund,and i see no reason why it won't be there in 30 more years...
we could function for several years without posting profits just off what a couple of our holdings make...
new,new ride!
'99 svt
black/mnb
'95 mustang gt sold!
'98 svt #800 sold!
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