Originally posted by JaTo:

Originally posted by Viss1:
Also, are the writings of the ancient Greek and Roman philosophers, as well as those of the Elightenment, incompatible with these principles, or might they also have been a source of reference for our Founding Fathers?



Ah! Now you are getting into the fun discussion. Absolutely, there are many moral and legal decrees in Roman and Greek society that are mirrored in Christian discourse. I don't see this as a smear on Christianity or something that dilutes it's importance; it's simply a matter of commonly-held belief structures in creating order, peace and control that EVERY religion or political structure usually holds themselves to. Find me a widely-held, long-lasting and popular religion or government that holds anarchy, law-breaking and immoral activities as the norm...




Jato, greek and roman philosophy isn't mirrored in the Bible, but rather, reflected by Man who has adopted and adapted philosophy with their Biblical teachings.

Just look at the Pope and his structure. We know and seem to expect that each Pope comes along with a different attitude or moral standard, as some have mentioned here and acknowledge.
In other words, every Pope has his own philosophy of how to guide the church. Yes, he is backed with Biblical principles, but as I mentioned, is "mixed" with His own ideas.

LIkewise, as the New Encyclopaedia Brit. puts it, Philosophy is " â??a reflection upon the varieties of human experienceâ?? or as â??the rational, methodical, and systematic consideration of those topics that are of greatest concern to man."
Christianity is based on Divine revelation so should have no bearing on the "varieties of human experience", And it's interests should be that of God and not those "of greatest concern to man."

It dawned on me why there is so much talk about your founding fathers. That's when science was infallible and gave cold hard "facts" to the people which gave a critical eye to religion. Deism started then too because mainstream religion couldn't cope with the new changes from the Inductrial Revolution. So now the people didn't want to support the ecclesiastical religions but perhaps didn't prefer the pseudo-religions (human-based or philosophied teachings) which brought as the World Christian Encyclopedia refers to as â??secularism, scientific materialism, atheistic communism, nationalism, nazism, fascism, Maoism, liberal humanism and numerous constructed or fabricated pseudo-religions.â? So Deism was a compromise. Hence the lack of God mentioned in your constitution. Being that Deism was new and hip, they probabaly didn't have a tough time dissueding the devout christian leaders to be conservative in their reference to God.

I think I understand some of this thread.

EDIT
Originally posted by JaTo:


Few documents in existance discuss or represent the human condition in such beauty as The Bible; I find it immensely disturbing and patently ignorant if one can't get past their hangups on religion and discern this. You can disagree with the theology all you want; it still doesn't detract from most of the core messages at the heart of the document.



It's hard, you agree to get past that for the same reason people can't forgive priests who molested children, in that the church has murdered, pillaged, warred, and almost commit every wrong in the "name of God". So unfortunatly, many turn to their own religion, in the comfort of their own home, to serve God. It's hard for the same open-minded person you talk about, to find a group who serves God without hypocrisy

Last edited by Cris'pus; 04/21/05 05:18 PM.
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