Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests New Pope Elected!

i agree with Davo in that Christianity is under persecution in the US, and all over Europe. why else do you see such huge flaming attacks on religious anything nowadays? why do you think they are constantly trying to have any religious inferences removed from anything and everything? like government seals and in court rooms? separation of church and state? tell that to the people who originally coined the phrase! theyre the guys who put these religious sayings all over the damned place to being with! this nation was founded on Christian beliefs and doctrines. the seperation of church and state is really to keep the church from commanding the state, as what was current in England and all over Europe at the time. there are certain groups, *ahem* ACLU/Left *ahem* who are trying to erode any connection with Christianity and anything public. I remeber learning about islam, buddhism and hinduism while i attended 10-12th grade in public schools but anything about Christianity was verboten!
then we have pop culture that slams Christianity every chance it gets. theyll praise buddha or allah but not God via Christianity, that's not cool. look at this [censored] Marlyn Manson and his parading our youth around into following his little mantras that are anti-Christian. was this around before? sure, but not for too long, and its becoming more and more prevalent. if you cant see it then you are either blind or not very concerned/involved with your religion. I havent been that involved with my own religious practices for years and even I see this happening.

I also agree that the Right is more Christian-oriented than the Left. while there are plenty of Christians in the Left there are also tons and tons of atheists, Jews and others who line up with the Left. why? because the Left is set on "leveling the playing field" on everything! including religion! why have the major Democratic presidential nominees all been "Christian"? because if they chose a non-Christian they would surely lose a large percentage of Christian voters to the Right which already has an overwhelmingly Christian vote. all of our presidents have been some form of Christian up to this day.

if you need an explanation than you obviously dont know much about our nations history.

or perhaps, what i meant to say was, this nation was founded by men who believed in these beliefs and doctrines.

The Founding Fathers were an interesting mix of Deists and Christians, though the majority seem to have been devout (for today's standards) Christians or those from Christian backgrounds. Although both camps acknowleged the concept of a Supreme Being and both routinely called that being "God", many of the similarities stop there. Just because both referred to "God" doesn't mean they were referring to the same belief structure...

Now, that's not to say that the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independance, the US Constitution and other historical documents of prime importance that led up to the founding of law and order in the United States are totally devoid of Christian influence; quite the opposite. Many documents refer to "God" and call forth His protection, guidance, wisdom, etc., etc., countless writs and laws held their roots in biblical doctrine, and few Founding Fathers can be found to have not warmed up to the subject of God, religion or Christianity in their speeches or musings. Respect and admiration for a religion and it's teachings doesn't equivocate "worship", though. Even though some of their moral fiber and character was clearly grounded in biblical fashion, not all were firm believers or followers of Christ.

I certainly wouldn't call the US a "Christian Nation" in terms of it's founding (say, like the Vatican); rather a nation molded and shaped largely in part by what could be called "Christian principle" . Anyone that claims otherwise wins the "labotomy of the day" prize as they know jack-sh!t about the bulk of the US population then as well as it's leadership, as it damn-sure wasn't built on time-travelling ACLU doctrine or anything coming CLOSE to it, as it seems some here would have us believe...

Point in case:

The Pilgrims were a fairly uptight and right-wing Christian sect that sought these shores to escape persecution from the English leadership of the time.

That's right. They were so uptight, pious and religiously starched that after being singled out as a point of "aggravation" towards the Crown, they decided to high-tail it to another plot of land where they could practice their particular brand of religious "extremism".

They were the precursors to the Founding Fathers and much of their common law, practices and beliefs were carried foward. The zealotry and rather absolutist nature of their religious beliefs WERE largely diluted from governing bodies by the time of the Revolution, especially in forming the Constitution, but the foundation and cornerstone of Christian doctrine permeated almost all levels of social, legal and philosophical thought, art, etc., etc.

To add layer of complexity to this tale: Christianity was as much of a social institution as a religious institution back then; a profound lack of movie theaters and other secular leisure activities pretty much had most of the population attending church if not for the spiritual aspects of congregating and worship, for the social aspects of it.

Another nail in the coffin: What was one of the most commonly used and available books to further reading and comprehension skills during the 18th century?

The Bible.

Books weren't readily available and flying off of the shelves back then, but if there was one book many families had, it was a Bible. Family records (births, deaths, marriages, etc.) were held in these and they were used as sources of discussion, debate, education, etc., etc.

This could go on and on and on, but rest assured that one of the largest cornerstones of historical US identity is the decidedly Christian heritage that seeps from it's pours. It's waxed and waned over the years, but it's always been there.

Wasn't one thread already deleted for having this conversation?


The Puritans came to America so that they could be the persecutors instead of the persecuted.

The rest is a crock.