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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by spgoode:
The point is that being a college student and a primary school student are very different, and all previous references were about primary school.
The point has nothing to do with what kind of school you're going to. Here is the point, in case you missed it:
Originally posted by Davo:
That's not the argument I'm making. I'm saying Christians are being persecuted. My evidence for this is that everything Christian is being forbidden in public discourse. If all religion was being eliminated, I wouldn't go the persecution route. UNC's policy shows this isn't the case.
I get your point, I think UNC's point is that people in this country know very little about Islam and know everything about chrisianity.
I still disagree with their policy though.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Viss1:
If you knew it was a shaky example, why did you post it? 
That's not my point. I could have posted a picture of a college professor or high school teacher making their students read the Qu'ran and pray at gunpoint and I still would have gotten a 'Yeah, but..'.
Originally posted by Viss1:
Who said I didn't think it was wrong? I thought it was a stupid move on UNC's part. But using it as support for the "they're trying to take my religion away" argument doesn't hold up.
That's not the argument I'm making. I'm saying Christians are being persecuted. My evidence for this is that everything Christian is being forbidden in public discourse. If all religion was being eliminated, I wouldn't go the persecution route. UNC's policy shows this isn't the case.
We've got a victim over here! 
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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
I (a 12 year old kid) was suspended for nearly two weeks pending a possible expulsion. You call that nothing?
Yes, and then they admitted they were wrong and let you continue to babble nonsense during lunch and disrupt other students.
Are you thick or supm'? Who said anything about disruptions, or lunch?
The fact of the matter is they tried to deny my 1st amendment right. Pretty profound task for a 12 year old to take on I thought.
You seem to see me as some sort of villan here. I see myself as a protector of the constitution against an institution that should know better. The same institution that "teaches" your kids & mine. I don't understand why you're even attempting to defend their behavior here...
I must be thick or supm', but i'd like to hear the whole story about your experience, not just yours.
I'm sure your parents had nothing to do with your act of civil disobedience.
The reason why this tweaked my interest is that people like you are always claiming that children can't pray in schools. Which is complete baloney. They can pray all they want at lunch, silently to themselves in class(do you really need to pray out loud for God to hear you?), before class, in the hall.
Jesus even said to not pray in public like the hypocrites, but in private. Is jesus wrong on this?
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But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by spgoode:
I think UNC's point is that people in this country know very little about Islam and know everything about chrisianity.
For whatever reason, that made me laugh hysterically. 
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Originally posted by Davo:
I'm saying Christians are being persecuted. My evidence for this is that everything Christian is being forbidden in public discourse.
Ya can't argue with that!
The other day a Jehovah's Witness came to my door talking about Jesus.
I punched him in the mouth, and the whiner called the police.
They determined that I was justified since the man mentioned Jesus.
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But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by spgoode:
I must be thick or supm', but i'd like to hear the whole story about your experience, not just yours.
I'm sure your parents had nothing to do with your act of civil disobedience.
The reason why this tweaked my interest is that people like you are always claiming that children can't pray in schools. Which is complete baloney. They can pray all they want at lunch, silently to themselves in class(do you really need to pray out loud for God to hear you?), before class, in the hall.
Jesus even said to not pray in public like the hypocrites, but in private. Is jesus wrong on this?
As a matter of fact the idea was mine & my parents did not know anything about it until they got the call from the school. I suppose that my upbringing has something to do with it so you could theoretically point a finger of blame toward them. My father, in fact, was the local newspaper publisher & was quite irritated by my stand. Last thing he wanted was the competing media splashing this story about his young son everywhere. I don't know if other media got wind of the story, but I do know that it was never printed in my fathers paper.
Perhaps you're right about schools these days, I haven't attended a public school in some time. I simply cited an example, which was my own experience. And just so you understand where I am coming from, here is the situation from my childhood:
Back in my day, there was a morning prayer, as well as the pledge of allegiance every morning before classes. This was suddenly changed & the morning prayer was replaced by a 'moment of silence'. Having been in the habbit of the prior routine & being a good Catholic child, I continued to make the sign of the cross & offer a prayer. After all, the law as I understood it prohibited the school from leading the students in such an observance, but I never heard any of the news reports say anything about a student voluntarily saying a prayer. I was sent to the Principals office after morning #2 & asked not to say a prayer. Next moring, I came into class with the teacher & Principal there waiting. The 'moment of silence' was announced & I made the sign of the cross, completed my prayer in complete silence, & was promptly pulled out of class & suspended.
Seemed an appropriate time, I uttered not a single word & observed the rules given me. So you see, the scenarios you offered above would not have been acceptable at the time. Everybody was running scared after that supreme court ruling on the separation of church & state as applied to prayer in public schools.
And no, Jesus was not wrong.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by Davo:
I'm saying Christians are being persecuted. My evidence for this is that everything Christian is being forbidden in public discourse.
Ya can't argue with that!
The other day a Jehovah's Witness came to my door talking about Jesus.
I punched him in the mouth, and the whiner called the police.
They determined that I was justified since the man mentioned Jesus.
Heh, you must be gettin' as tired of this debate as I am.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by Davo:
I'm saying Christians are being persecuted. My evidence for this is that everything Christian is being forbidden in public discourse.
Ya can't argue with that!
The other day a Jehovah's Witness came to my door talking about Jesus.
I punched him in the mouth, and the whiner called the police.
They determined that I was justified since the man mentioned Jesus.
Heh, you must be gettin' as tired of this debate as I am.
I'm sure not getting enough work done.
Dueling Duratecs
'95 SE V6 MTX 0 Mods
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But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by Davo:
I'm saying Christians are being persecuted. My evidence for this is that everything Christian is being forbidden in public discourse.
Ya can't argue with that!
The other day a Jehovah's Witness came to my door talking about Jesus.
I punched him in the mouth, and the whiner called the police.
They determined that I was justified since the man mentioned Jesus.
Heh, you must be gettin' as tired of this debate as I am.
I'm sure not getting enough work done.
Awrite, truce. 
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by Davo:
That's not my point. I could have posted a picture of a college professor or high school teacher making their students read the Qu'ran and pray at gunpoint and I still would have gotten a 'Yeah, but..'.
Sorry to ruin your misconception of my closed-mindedness, but if you had posted a link referring to a grade or high school class being forced to read the Koran, I would have admitted my ignorance and thanked you for setting me straight.
Instead the best support you could find for the "persecution in schools" argument was a pre-semester reading for a college. I'm no lawyer, but if I was defending a grade school student's right to pray in school, I wouldn't use the "colleges make students learn about competing religions" argument and expect the trial to last very long.
You also stated If all religion was being eliminated, I wouldn't go the persecution route. UNC's policy shows this isn't the case. UNC students are not forbidden to study Christianity. In fact I bet it's a pretty big part of the Religion curriculum there.
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