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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,791
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,791 |
Originally posted by TexasRealtor:
I can believe I am saying this, but I agree with Rawburt. You have to trust priests (and teachers, cops, etc.).
CEG first...  Someone agreed with me. I'm moving on up! 
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066 |
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Mushu:
The choice facing the new leader is whether to deal with the problems by falling back on traditional doctrine - or modernising.
Frankly, I'd like to see a really strong pope come out & take on secularism. Leadership without guidance is leading to the decay of modern society IMHO. Political correctness in all its forms is leading to the exclusion of theological guidance & the abolition of free speech if it has to do with religion.
Long live John Paul II.
As a catholic I am apalled at the thought of that.
Religion has no place in the governance of a state, unless you want blind idealogy spilling the blood of millions.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 772
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 772 |
Originally posted by ODC:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Mushu:
The choice facing the new leader is whether to deal with the problems by falling back on traditional doctrine - or modernising.
Frankly, I'd like to see a really strong pope come out & take on secularism. Leadership without guidance is leading to the decay of modern society IMHO. Political correctness in all its forms is leading to the exclusion of theological guidance & the abolition of free speech if it has to do with religion.
Long live John Paul II.
As a catholic I am apalled at the thought of that.
Religion has no place in the governance of a state, unless you want blind idealogy spilling the blood of millions.
You are appalled that our leaders might fall back upon their faith and moral center when making decisions? I really have no problem with that. There is a BIG difference between "blind idealogy" (I assume that you mean living in a theocracy) and in choosing leaders with character and conviction. If the foundation of a man's character is an outspoken faith in God, so be it.
FWIW, many so called Christians do not even attempt to live in the example of Christ, so I can see where a lot of people develop such ideas while observing some of the idiots in our governenment.
former owner, 95 SE MTX
02 Ford Explorer
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066 |
Originally posted by DrGonzo:
You are appalled that our leaders might fall back upon their faith and moral center when making decisions? I really have no problem with that. There is a BIG difference between "blind idealogy" (I assume that you mean living in a theocracy) and in choosing leaders with character and conviction. If the foundation of a man's character is an outspoken faith in God, so be it.
FWIW, many so called Christians do not even attempt to live in the example of Christ, so I can see where a lot of people develop such ideas while observing some of the idiots in our governenment.
'Character and conviction' might be misleading here. It implies somebody who will do whatever he believes is right. What he believes is right ultimately stems from his moral and ethical code. For most of us, that comes from religion.
That is not what an elected leader should do.
I am born, baptized a catholic, and will die one -- but I hold very, very, very little in weight with the church for their stances on many issues.
It is *my* religion, not the church's.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Originally posted by ODC:
It is *my* religion, not the church's.
It is the church's religion. What the church cannot dictate is your faith. If you're still a Catholic but disavow much of what they stand for and teach, then that is for you and God to sort out.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 772
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 772 |
Originally posted by ODC:
Originally posted by DrGonzo:
You are appalled that our leaders might fall back upon their faith and moral center when making decisions? I really have no problem with that. There is a BIG difference between "blind idealogy" (I assume that you mean living in a theocracy) and in choosing leaders with character and conviction. If the foundation of a man's character is an outspoken faith in God, so be it.
FWIW, many so called Christians do not even attempt to live in the example of Christ, so I can see where a lot of people develop such ideas while observing some of the idiots in our governenment.
'Character and conviction' might be misleading here. It implies somebody who will do whatever he believes is right. What he believes is right ultimately stems from his moral and ethical code. For most of us, that comes from religion.
That is not what an elected leader should do.
I am born, baptized a catholic, and will die one -- but I hold very, very, very little in weight with the church for their stances on many issues.
It is *my* religion, not the church's.
Then what should an elected leader, in our republican system, do? What they beleive to be wrong??? God help us all, then.
IMO, we are arguing the nuances of Religion with-a-capital-R and religion as faith. Faith, or the lack thereof, is a personal choice. It will guide your convictions. People will know you from your deeds. However, Religion is politicized, organized, and at times corrupt. I do NOT want leaders bowing to the wishes of Jerry Falwell or the Pope anymore than you do.
But I have no problem voting for a man (or woman) of strong Christian (or Jewish, or TRUE Islamic) principals. I will vote for them before someone that swings in the breeze from day to day (and we have some "Christians" in our governemnt that better fit that description!).
former owner, 95 SE MTX
02 Ford Explorer
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
Originally posted by Pope Dnewma IV:
I'm Catholic and would love to see them endorse birth control and allow priests to marry. The second of which would be more difficult with the centuries long traditions associated with it. If nothing else, endorse masturbation and porn...
Wow, what a horrible thing to say....
Let's endorse it because we can't "control" anything we do huh?
Those priests, just like anybody else who commits a horrible and disgusting act against a child (including the married men, men who look at porn, men who masturbate, etc)have a choice.
They choose their actions, they aren't drawn into it like unsuspecting women in thriller movies are drawn to see what that noise was...
Sorry, forgot the smiley but making it so obvious ruins some of the effect.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by Corbett:
Originally posted by spgoode:
I'll be very convincing! I'll swear on my mothers grave or a stack of bibles or something!
You would not have to do any of that. You would just have to believe in your heart. Not just say you believe. God will know your true intentions, no matter how hard you try to hide them. He will know what you are thinking on the inside. He is not like a man you can manipulate, He is God. All knowing!
What if I wrap tin-foil around my head or wear a metal hat, do you think He will still be able to read my thoughts?
You might get away with it if you have an "I (heart) GOD" t-shirt on.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,132
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,132 |
Originally posted by DrGonzo:
Originally posted by ODC:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Mushu:
The choice facing the new leader is whether to deal with the problems by falling back on traditional doctrine - or modernising.
Frankly, I'd like to see a really strong pope come out & take on secularism. Leadership without guidance is leading to the decay of modern society IMHO. Political correctness in all its forms is leading to the exclusion of theological guidance & the abolition of free speech if it has to do with religion.
Long live John Paul II.
As a catholic I am apalled at the thought of that.
Religion has no place in the governance of a state, unless you want blind idealogy spilling the blood of millions.
You are appalled that our leaders might fall back upon their faith and moral center when making decisions? I really have no problem with that. There is a BIG difference between "blind idealogy" (I assume that you mean living in a theocracy) and in choosing leaders with character and conviction. If the foundation of a man's character is an outspoken faith in God, so be it.
FWIW, many so called Christians do not even attempt to live in the example of Christ, so I can see where a lot of people develop such ideas while observing some of the idiots in our governenment.
When I think of a Catholic priest, I think of the priests who molest young children. How could men that are so sick become a Catholic Priest? It just does not seem good. I can't think of a worse crime than what the priests do when they molest young children. Some of the Catholic preits are evil.
http://news.google.com/news?q=catholic+molest&hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,193
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,193 |
Personally, I am highly disappointed with Joseph Ratzinger being elevated to Pope. You have a person who as Cardinal was extremely rigid and rule-bound, an archconservative in an era where the Church needs to realize the modern world.
A group of us current and raised Catholics were discussing the deliberations at work and we all said ANYONE but Ratzinger. His previous role suited him perfectly, but we all wanted a moderate as Pope to correct much of JPII's moral extremism.
I was hoping more a more moderate choice, particularly one with more sophistication. Christoph Schoenborn of Vienna was my favorite. A moderate to conservative, he is related to several European royal families, giving him a degree of class and connections that I believe is desirable in a modern Pope.
Priests were allowed to marry for hundreds of years, eventually changing due to competition with the monastic orders and to relieve issues of church property being left to the families of priests. I believe they should be again allowed to marry, to allow them a greater understanding of their congregations and attract more into the priesthood. I also believe women should be allowed to become priests and rise in other ordained positions.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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