|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
You are wrong MKingracing.
W-R "literally" took a set of MSDS headers and copied them. Go find the posts of them asking for volunteers. (here & NECO) IIRC some Cougar guy finally did it for them.
This is old news so it's not like anyone is bring up any new "accusations" or "statements" either.
That is why I made the statement they can't even copy things correctly. It is plainly obvious to see the header primary lengths are different. The MSDS headers have tuned primary lengths to best match the pulses from the cylinders. That is why the collector is angled the way it is. They could have given it more side to side clearance & make then easier to build by turning the collector but that would change the length of the primaries.
W-R went the easier route and just turned the collector.
"Hence my previous statements"
You get what you pay for...
On top of that I would not put an uncoated set of headers on anything I owned. If you are going to use W-R headers at least have the sensibility to get them coated IMHSFHO.
Also I am all for supporting a Shop that made "half price" headers for our ignored platform when the only other option was the $1250+ SHM headers.
Marty also supports Spring Zing (MSDS header set give away) & supports the NECO site. In today's society just call me old fashioned for having some loyalty. I won't argue the price point because the ~$150 difference is a chunk of change (coated vs coated sets)
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
...they can't even copy things correctly.
Which brings up another point - the EGR bung. Dont the Cougar owners also have fitment problems they must overcome to get the EGR tube to install on the WR headers? Same as the problem with fitment on the Contour.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Which brings up another point - the EGR bung. Dont the Cougar owners also have fitment problems they must overcome to get the EGR tube to install on the WR headers? Same as the problem with fitment on the Contour.
The headers were test fit on an 01 or 02 Cougar. That model has a different EGR location, 1 secondary O2 sensor, and a slightly different mount. (IIRC on the mount)
So yes 99 through early 01 has the same fitment problems. (i.e. most of the Cougars or a good 150k of the 183,464 Cougars produced from 99-02)
Later 01 and 02 do not. 1/6 of 99-02 production.
W-R's brilliance shines through... (cheap shot but it was just too easy  )
If you took CDW-27 productions numbers as a whole. They would fit roughly 2.5% of the production run without modification. If every car was a V6 that is.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,012
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,012 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
You get what you pay for...
thats all you had to say.
Oo (xxx)oO
o xxxxxxxx o
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,651
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,651 |
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Who has ever presented tangible evidence showing that the weapon R's are identical?? According to desmon he says the tubes are differnet in lengths, Now your saying they are identical. This tells me you guys are all talk you have no idea if they are or arn't. Nobody within these boards have provided any drafting/blueprints of the measurements of the msds. Where we can compare to the Weapon R's. And looking at the pics you can't tell a damn thing different. So instead of making false statements saying they copied, Show me proof or stop making up stories. The way i see it if they are indentical how come they work on cougars and not contours. Because they are not identical!! "" Well the tubes run identical and the tubes are the same length""?? Show me proof and then i believe you guys. Man alot of smoke is getting blown around in this disscussion.
CEG is not MSDS. It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses .
Why so hostile? If you're so all fired up about it, measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" to Marty so you can prove, once & for all, whether they are the same.
Demon you explain that the mesurements are off. But then again i don't see how, even stazi mentioned in this disscussion for you to look at the pics again? To point out where they are different, it seems to me even stazi see's that they are identical. I never found in seaching and even in the old archives where weapon r was asking for a set of msds headers.
Tour 
It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses If it's not up to ceg. You probably meant the people of ceg??
measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" Then who are talking to here? I belong to ceg?? Maybe i am missing something.
You don't want the people on ceg to do it but you want a person from ceg to do this??
Last edited by Mkingracing; 04/23/05 07:41 AM.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 32
New CEG\'er
|
|
OP
New CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 32 |
I really do not get at all the logic of saying that weapon r copied other headers. it is such a goofy statement. ANY headers made like mustang gt shorty headers are ALL similar and copied the original basic design of the factory headers with improvements. ALL 3.8 gm supercharged headers front wheel drive have the same basic design. Both the MSDS and Weapon R are copies of the OEM manufacturer headers WITH improvements in size and flow patterns. The whole argument about copy of one another makes NO SENSE!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
In the end it's your decision. If you wanna spend over $600 to buy mild steel headers which you HOPE won't rust, then that's your prerogative. Personally I wouldn't after seeing the lack of differences, AND seeing the benefit of the WR's being SS is a plus. Greg, you complain about them being uncoated, yet, the ADC headers are uncoated too and run hotter, and I have seen no detriment to that.
My honest opinion is that the claims of them being inferior are unfounded and based on speculation alone. I honestly think I am one of the few that has had the opportunity to see both sets at the same time and thus can truly appreciate their similarities. And hell for the difference in price, no one is worth that devotion.
Afterall don't we all buy ait filters from one place, MAF adapters from another and exhaust form another place again in the attempt to save money??? Why does that ideal stop here?
From where I'm sitting it seems like a lot of MSDS owners are pissed they dropped big coin on headers when a cheaper yet equally as good IF NOT BETTER, set is now available and the claims of them being soft and made crapily is basically BS.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 188
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 188 |
Okay first I will agree with Demon and second I paid 600 for my msds shipped and have been very impressed with them. But to each his own!
98 CSVT #4214/6535
Mods:
N/A and modded out
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Tour
It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses
If it's not up to ceg. You probably meant the people of ceg??
measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" Then who are talking to here? I belong to ceg?? Maybe i am missing something.
You don't want the people on ceg to do it but you want a person from ceg to do this??
Re-read the previous post I made, in its entirety, slowly so you'll perhaps understand it better. Honestly, I don't think your reading comprehension could possibly be that poor.
You're griping about no proof & unsubstantiated claims, so I put the onus on you to put the issue to rest once & for all. Since you have a set of WR on the way, why not step up to the plate junior?
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,651
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,651 |
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Tour
It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses
If it's not up to ceg. You probably meant the people of ceg??
measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" Then who are talking to here? I belong to ceg?? Maybe i am missing something.
You don't want the people on ceg to do it but you want a person from ceg to do this??
Re-read the previous post I made, in its entirety, slowly so you'll perhaps understand it better. Honestly, I don't think your reading comprehension could possibly be that poor.
You're griping about no proof & unsubstantiated claims, so I put the onus on you to put the issue to rest once & for all. Since you have a set of WR on the way, why not step up to the plate junior?
No i understood you perfectly junior!! lol
Look, bottom line i believe at first they where knock offs because i listened to the elders on this. Now, wondering are they really? So who ever started the title "knock offs" should present information provding that they are. If you go to court and you present a case you have to have evdience or it is dissmissed. Simple you state a theory you prove it. If you say they are knock offs that show me they are untill then its your opinoin. All i did was question your statement. That is it!!
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
|
|
|
|
|
