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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777 |
the weapon R are the Stainless ones right? not the coated ones? The Y pipe on the coated one is less than stellar. that bend on the right side is pathetically wrong.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
The Weapon-R's are the SS non-shiny ones. The V-bend in the MSDS y-pipe is pathetic.
Tour96se I charge $300 to install headers.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by Stazi:
Tour96se I charge $300 to install headers.
And worth every dime! I helped a little today & it's not fun! Have to have a lot of patience. Video of Tom's car will be up tomorrow.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
The flange inlets are much smaller of the Weapons-Rice headers. That's a very bad sign. The MSDS ones need to be touched up to match the stock exhaust ports. Though maybe MSDS made them larger in retrospect since I got my set. The W-R headers do not copy the pulse matched primary lengths of the MSDS headers. You can easily see the primaries are not the same length. That is a bad error on their part. They can't even copy something correctly.  I agree the weld quality on the W-R headers sucks. Then again exterior looks aren't everything as long as it does not leak. However looking at the interior of the Y-pipe showed the inside is as bad as the outside. That can mean possible slag and weld through in the airflow. Not surprising no one touched my main problem area about installing uncoated SS headers since there is no defense point for that glaring issue.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Not surprising no one touched my main problem area about installing uncoated SS headers since there is no defense point for that glaring issue.
So get them coated. How much can it be?
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,426
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,426 |
Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Stazi:
Tour96se I charge $300 to install headers.
And worth every dime! Have to have a lot of patience.
Like Todd said, lots and lots of patience!! More than I personally have. Thanks to Stazi, Todd, and Mike. I very pleased with the results and the sound.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
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& thanks for the great smokey burnout.  Wish my camera was rolling.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
MSDS is DEFINATELY a better choice. Fitment, warranty, gaskets, MILs, & hardware are just a few things that you don't get with WRs. WRs are a viable choice for those on a budget, but if you have a few extra $, the MSDS are gonna save you some headaches & heartbreak. Well worth it if a header ever cracks, or just to avoid having to deal with fitting the darn things.
MSDS are still the best. 
Well let me think....
$650 for coated mild steel that always corrodes and requires yearly maintenance with exhaust paint coatings (like thermotec)
OR:
$499 or less for stainless that appears to be decent grade and gauge.
MIL eliminators can be built for $1.50 if you just pull your lower O2 sensor and solder them in. I did my last couple of sets like that and I've never had a problem. THe O2 sensor wires are a little hard to solder so use the silver/solder and get it really hot. Then use some heat shrink tubing and you're good.
Gaskets are a waste unless your stock gaskets are no good or if your headers are not fitting. I've gone back to stock gaskets every time since they are double stainless steel and they don't leak. Your choice here but I think that anywhere from a $150 to $200 savings if not more is worth these areas that lack and if you take into account the corrosion resistance of stainless then ???????????
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I'd rather have coated steel then uncoated 304 SS. Every day of the week! Period.
Uncoated SS is horrible for heat retention and bleeds heat badly to the surrounding area. The more exhaust heat lost the worse the performance and the more heat introduced to the engine, oil pan, and under hood the worse every thing else is.
You can't wrap cheap SS because it will crack. I suppose you could send it in for Jet-hot coating. Then that seriously cuts into it's price advantage everyone harps about.
This is a classic example of you get what you pay for. If you want to save a little money and buy this blatant knock off design then at least get them coated. You'd be very foolish not to.
Sorry but there are a few misconceptions here.
304L stainless is normally just fine for high heat apps.
Stainless does NOT conduct heat as well as mild steel, therefore it will not remove as much heat from the exhaust.
The life of the mild steel or the stainless will be greatly reduced with header wrap and you will never know until the mild steel pipe has holes forming in it or the stainless suddenly cracks open.
This is one reason why the stock manifolds w/precats have bolt on reflective heat shields rather then wrapping, yet the stock y-pipe uses a wrap and metal covering. The exhaust cools significantly by the time it gets down to the y-pipe and wrapping is not an issue.
I wouldn't wrap my headers anyway but would design or copy the heat shielding if it was important.
Mild steel advantages are that it is cheaper, ductile and therefore less likely to crack.
Mild steel disadvantage is the higher thermal conductivity (in this case) and its inability to resist degradation from the high heat of the exhaust due to the diffusivity of the carbon and other alloying elements. This heat affects any metal but it is slower and requires even higher temperatures in the desirable stainless steels. This is exactly why 304L or better is good for the higher temp "hot" pipes and 304 is good for the cooler sections. I don't know if the weaponR headers are 304 or 304L but I'd really like to find out.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by warmonger:
Well let me think....
$650 for coated mild steel that always corrodes and requires yearly maintenance with exhaust paint coatings (like thermotec)
OR:
$499 or less for stainless that appears to be decent grade and gauge.
MIL eliminators can be built for $1.50 if you just pull your lower O2 sensor and solder them in. I did my last couple of sets like that and I've never had a problem. THe O2 sensor wires are a little hard to solder so use the silver/solder and get it really hot. Then use some heat shrink tubing and you're good.
Gaskets are a waste unless your stock gaskets are no good or if your headers are not fitting. I've gone back to stock gaskets every time since they are double stainless steel and they don't leak. Your choice here but I think that anywhere from a $150 to $200 savings if not more is worth these areas that lack and if you take into account the corrosion resistance of stainless then ???????????
Someone with sense. How -to on MIL's. Weapon R's can be found on ebay for $375 w/ shipping. Also the Y-pipe doesn't have the nasty bend MSDS does.  Really how much are 2 exhaust manifold gaskets?  If you can get someone to move the EGR port you'll save some good $. Oh yea & sell the Y-pipe to someone and save even more. You could optimize your stock one. I would keep it but shows how cheap you could go.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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