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I've been married for almost ten years now. I love my wife. She is truly a wonderful woman and I am lucky as hell to be married to her. She has never done anything to make me doubt her fidelity, and I have never cheated on her either.
OK, so here's the complication: there's this woman at work, and I can't stop thinking about her.
Let's call her "Mei Ling." She has the most beautiful eyes. They are so expressive and warm, and they sparkle when she smiles. She is not very tall (about 5') but she carries herself with such grace that you hardly notice her size. She's petite, and she has these sturdy little legs that she likes to make fun of, but which I find heartbreakingly adorable. And her voice. Guys. Her voice. So soft and warm, yet clear and melodious. Like a bronze bell of a temple on a hillside in China. I could just listen to her talk all day.
So I am this girl's fool, no doubt about it. Amazingly enough, she would like to get to know me better too.
I imagine spending a little time with her when my wife is away in the evenings (teaching yoga classes five nights a week). Her husband works late several nights a week.
I know what you are thinking, you gutter-dwellers: Caltour wants to boink his little Chinese concubine. Well, go straight to hell. That's not what this is about.
Here's the truth: I am not just interested in boinking Mei Ling. I really want to get to know her, and find out about her life (the glimpses she has already given me of her girlhood in China are fascinating). OK, OK. Actually, I imagine getting a whole lot intimate with her. But I wouldn't do it. I know being married means no boinking on the side. I know that boinking is flat out cheating, even in my current state of helpless befuddlement).
But here is my question for you: what if I put limits on the intimacy? How far can you go and not be cheating? Is ANY physical contact at all cheating? What about developing a deep friendship with a woman who is not your wife? Is that cheating?
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I would say if you mess around, even the tiniest bit, it's cheating. You just think about, no biggie, everyone does that, but no touching.
2004 Ford Freestar V6
Boogity Boogity Boogity, Let's go racin Boys!
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Originally posted by caltour:
But here is my question for you: what if I put limits on the intimacy? How far can you go and not be cheating? Is ANY physical contact at all cheating? What about developing a deep friendship with a woman who is not your wife? Is that cheating?
You're speaking the recipe of trouble. Deep trouble.
But to stack this plain and simple, I will just answer your questions in the order you presented them:
1. What kind of intimacy are we talking? Do you feel safe doing so? Honestly, I can't understand why you seem willing to step into this end of the pool if you already have a loving wife whom has done you no wrong. I personally wouldn't consider any limits on intimacy, mainly because I wouldn't consider any intimacy at all.
2. You're in a different situation than I. When you're not married, rather in a long-term relationship, there is probably a slightly greater stretching room in the amount of leeway you can give yourself. Yet again, though, I don't consider this because I do my damnedest to not think about other girls. I don't always succeed, as no guy can truthfully say he does, but I like to think I have my mind on the one girl I'm with 99% of the time I have the ability to breathe.
3. The casual hug is not something I would consider cheating, married or not. However I don't think this is what you're referring to in this case. Again, I can't speak as if I were married, because I never have been, but if I can be allowed to picture myself a few years down the road as a married man, then I don't think I'd be thrilled with that kind of physical contact. Right now, I can't say I'd be thrilled with it either, but probably less so pissed than if I were married.
4. A deep friendship is something I would not mind at all if in this situation. Friendships should always be allowed between people in a relationship, because sometimes just that one person isn't enough. Now flashing back to the heydays of high school, deep friendship usually took the meaning of "friends with benefits" and I've been there before. It's a major pain in the ass, because no matter how hard you try, you eventually think that the "benefits" actually mean something when they honestly don't. When the time comes to break off this "benefit" habit, one of you is going to be sorely disappointed when it is brought to light that the entire friendship was based on the ability to satisfy one's sexual/physical desires. I've learned that I don't want a lot of my friendships with the opposite side of the pond to go down that way.
Yeah, I kinda broke off on a tangent. It's 1:41 PM, I'm bored and not drunk so I guess I just kept typing. Do what you will with it. 
Either way, good luck figuring out your situation. 
-SAV
Troll. 1997 VW Jetta MkIII GLS 5spd
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Do you honestly think you can have a "deep" relationship without having the same sort of feelings you have for your wife? I am naive but I believe in openness in a relationship and you should be able to talk to your wife about this. I know a lot of people here that have outside relationships and I think it's really a [censored] thing to do to someone you have a commitment to. I would say find a way to not be around her. Do you feel guilty when you think about her? I don't think thougts are bad but when you constatly think about another woman I believe there is something wrong with that. Remember I am pretty naive and I am sure people will say not to worry about it.
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You need to ask for transfer to a different office, different floor in the building, quit your job, find something else, tell your wife, be honest with yourself, and realize the grass is not greener in your Chinese womans backyard.
In other words RUN!!!!!!
Flee, get out, don't look back, pretend this woman was just some dream girl you saw that you know you could never have. You're married man...get over it...
This woman at work seems to be interested in cheating on her husband, flirting with a married man, and destroying two relationships.
She doesn't sound like a very good person.
I don't know anything about the relationship between you and your wife, but PUHLEEEEEASE!!! You have the option to walk away from this adulterous relationship right now, before anything you can't turn away from starts. And I think you probably need to be honest with your wife and let her know that she isn't giving you something you need. Man, don't destroy your life like this....
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here's the best rule of thumb i can think of when it comes to this matter.
don't ever do anything with another woman that you can't tell your wife/fiancee/etc about. if you have to hide it, if it would hurt this person you love, then don't do it. there's nothing really wrong with having a little crush or fantasy, but the second you cross that line, it's too late.
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone?
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Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
You need to ask for transfer to a different office, different floor in the building, quit your job, find something else, tell your wife, be honest with yourself, and realize the grass is not greener in your Chinese womans backyard. She seems to be interested in cheating on her husband, flirting with a married man, and destroying two relationships.
She doesn't sound like a very good person.
I don't know anything about the relationship between you and your wife, but PUHLEEEEEASE!!! You have the option to walk away from this adulterous relationship right now, before anything you can't turn away from starts. And I think you probably need to be honest with your wife and let her know that she isn't giving you something you need. Man, don't destroy your life like this....
I agree 110%... thoughts are ok. But don't get thoughts like, I wonder what it would be like to be with her, I wonder if my wife would find out. If you ever have to wonder if your wife will see you... then its not good to do whatever you are doing. I would say be friends, and if your tempted to do anything, back out of the friendship. You have to imagine how much your wife gave up to be with you. You can never have any touching (hugging is ok), but no sexually satisfying anything (I believe even a kiss is wrong). I don't know if she is married but if she is and shes looking at you, don't do it... because what if you divorced and got married to this chinese girl, and then she spots even another guy. huh? then what? you gave up a great marriage for nothing but a cheating woman. I have always said if they cheat with you, they have the ability to do it with another person.
Take my advice, don't ruin a 10 year marriage for a cute chinese girl.
Steve
Steven. L. Benthal Jr.
98 Mystique: Meshed Grille & Pioneer Sound System
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Well, take it from someone who has suffered from his wife's infidelity, it may start as a friendship, but what you are contemplating is an Emotional Affair.
I would encourage you to visit a website called MarriageBuilders.com
Read some of the articles there, study the materials about meeting emotional needs, and perhaps you and your wife can do the questionares.
I'm not an expert, but the fact that you think about this woman means you are not getting something you want/need from your wife.
I wish you well, my marriage is over except for the final paperwork. I regret that I didn't know more, or value meeting my wife's emotional needs, and she felt she had to have an affair.
However, the decision to lie, cheat and have an affair belongs 100% to her.
However, if you love your wife and family, then she deserves to know, in a loving, non-judgmental fashion, that you have needs that she is not meeting. You also owe her the opportunity to ask her if there are ways you can better meet her needs.
Marriage is not about you, it is about what you are going to do for your wife. Likewise, you hope that it's about what she is going to do for you.
There are a couple of key concepts outlined at marriagebuilders.com
1. The love bank, you make deposits or withdrawls from your spouses love bank, if you overdraw, your spouse may decide it's too "costly" to remain in the relationship with you.
2. Love Busters, these are behaviors and habits that cause withdraws from the lovebank.
3. Emotional needs, meeting emotional needs makes deposits in the love bank.
4. The Policy of Joint Agreement, you and your wife decide not to do anything unless there is ENTHUSIASTIC agreement. If you can't decide, or the discussion becomes emotionally unsafe, you table the discussion for later.
Check it out, it really opened my eyes. Sometimes I wish I had this information before my wife started her affair 18 months ago. I did love her, and had not idea she was hurting and unsatisfied.
Well, she has returned the favor, and did the most hurtful thing I believe one human can do to another, break faith and trust.
If you have unmet needs, and you are not sharing how you feel about them with her, in one sense, you are lying to her, by omitting how you feel.
Openess and honesty with your partner is more than just telling the truth, it is making the truth known and not hidden from her.
HTH,
TB
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004
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Originally posted by BOFH:
Well, take it from someone who has suffered from his wife's infidelity, it may start as a friendship, but what you are contemplating is an Emotional Affair.
I would encourage you to visit a website called MarriageBuilders.com
Read some of the articles there, study the materials about meeting emotional needs, and perhaps you and your wife can do the questionares.
I'm not an expert, but the fact that you think about this woman means you are not getting something you want/need from your wife.
I wish you well, my marriage is over except for the final paperwork. I regret that I didn't know more, or value meeting my wife's emotional needs, and she felt she had to have an affair.
However, the decision to lie, cheat and have an affair belongs 100% to her.
However, if you love your wife and family, then she deserves to know, in a loving, non-judgmental fashion, that you have needs that she is not meeting. You also owe her the opportunity to ask her if there are ways you can better meet her needs.
Marriage is not about you, it is about what you are going to do for your wife. Likewise, you hope that it's about what she is going to do for you.
There are a couple of key concepts outlined at marriagebuilders.com
1. The love bank, you make deposits or withdrawls from your spouses love bank, if you overdraw, your spouse may decide it's too "costly" to remain in the relationship with you.
2. Love Busters, these are behaviors and habits that cause withdraws from the lovebank.
3. Emotional needs, meeting emotional needs makes deposits in the love bank.
4. The Policy of Joint Agreement, you and your wife decide not to do anything unless there is ENTHUSIASTIC agreement. If you can't decide, or the discussion becomes emotionally unsafe, you table the discussion for later.
Check it out, it really opened my eyes. Sometimes I wish I had this information before my wife started her affair 18 months ago. I did love her, and had not idea she was hurting and unsatisfied.
Well, she has returned the favor, and did the most hurtful thing I believe one human can do to another, break faith and trust.
If you have unmet needs, and you are not sharing how you feel about them with her, in one sense, you are lying to her, by omitting how you feel.
Openess and honesty with your partner is more than just telling the truth, it is making the truth known and not hidden from her.
HTH,
TB
 That was beautiful.
Sad, but so well put.
Steven. L. Benthal Jr.
98 Mystique: Meshed Grille & Pioneer Sound System
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Imagine your wife having the same sort of problems. Would you like her to talk it over with you ? What would you think about her ? Chances are, after 10yrs of marriage you two would think along the same lines about this.
I'd say talk to your wife. She knows you better than you think. On the other hand, if you think there are things in your marriage you two shouldn't talk about... well, then your marriage is in trouble and it's time to talk to each other...
Tiv
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