|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,028
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,028 |
Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
If you're going to bring up Michael Shiavo, then I'm going to bring up the Schindlers. If the motives of one are relevant, so are the motives of the other.
The Schindlers want to keep her on a force-feeding life support system. Feeding tubes are by no means natural. If the feeding tube is a natural way of eating, then a respirator is a natural way of breathing.
I see the situation very differently than you do. I see it as a woman who is being artifically kept alive since she died 15 years ago, because the parents are too wrapped up in their own loss to let Terri rest in peace. Forcing people to remain trapped in an existence like this is inhuman and wrong.
The Constitution was written to protect the citizens from having government force a single brand of religious and moral thought upon the people as well as to prevent religion from being corrupted by government.
Oh yeah, her parents...
As for the force feeding from a tube, I suppose we should just remove all the "artificial" means of keeping us alive (vaccines etc). Flu shots etc. Kind of important to you and me. Let's get rid of the fridge, because that's an unnatural way of keeping our food cool, the oven, unnatural way of cooking, the microwave, power lines, cars, etc etc etc.
Let's let go of all technology, because it isn't natural. We are all force fed in some way. Her force feeding just happens to come from a tube inserted in her stomach.
As for artificially keeping her alive. The only thing "artifical" (your term) is the feeding tube. SHE BREATHES (hey, so do I), her heart pumps (hey, so does mine), and as Johnny Five would say She's "ALLIIIIIVE"!!! All she needs now is.....dum-de-dum-de-duuuuummmm.....
Let's hear it? FOOD
If that is artificial, then why does my stomach growl when it's hungry. That's right. It's a necessity of life, regardless of how it gets there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
I am too drunk too respond too everything you wrote, but I don't see how ANYONE can intepret BRAIN as lung and heart. PLEASE, look up what brain dead means. Brain dead does not mean your body stops functioning. It means you are BRAIN DEAD. DEAD. Your body lives but your aren't really there with it. Come back down here and join us guy. ....
I think I am more religious than many people. Although
I don't attend church on a regular basis, God has saved me from taking my life. I won't even begin to try to explain that, but it's the truth.
Anyways, I think you just said a lotta crap. Do you realize the legislative sytesm is not the judicial systesm?
Based on your last paragraph, I can see you don't really undestand what is going on. The judicial system gives appeals to everyone (sorta). Do you realize that congress isn't the judicial system? They fubared and decided ONE case. Now (if the judicial system would hold it up, whick they're not, thank God), they would have to decide every right to life case.
Sorry, I am drunk. I can't keep trying to explain SIMPLE things to ignorant people. Step away from your 'beliefs' and see what is going on. Whether you agree with what happens or not, look at how our GOVERNMENT is working. It's not good. It will probably never be good, but you probably like it as long as it goes along with your beliefs. Often government goes against what I believe, but when it violates the constitution/is soley based on getting more votes, I'd rather see me ideals shot to hell then that kinda government exist.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718 |
I don't know about you, but sh!tting myself, pissing myself, bedridden for the remainder of my days, drooling and not having enough motor control or mental facilities to formulate even the most basic of actions and thoughts isn't a life worth living, ESPECIALLY if it ever comes at the financial or mental/emotional expense of my loved ones.
Again, why do some people let doctrine and dogma blind them to the concept of quality of life vs. quantity of life? Is the mantra of suffering and penance so strong in Christian observance that it must be forced onto those without conscious choice?
It's little short of torture, except the recepient of the punishment is too far gone to complain, scream and despair over the situation. For those that see this as a religious fight, I ask this simple question:
In biblical times (and in any time outside the 20th century), what would have happened to this woman?
I seem to recall that a number of people that were struck with unknown afflictions in earlier times were claimed to have been "possessed of the devil" or otherwise tarnished; they were banished, stoned, lynched or even tortured in the name of God. This certainly wasn't the rule, but it was far from being the exception throughout history.
Even if any of this wasn't the case and the best doctors or healers of the day could care for her, she would have died days after her initial episode.
What would have been the religious outcry then? Is technology such a powerful tool that it overrides our very sense of dignity and respect for the GOD-GIVEN natural processes and occurances of life and death (especially in such an extreme case)? Yet again, I'll ask is quantity of life a better thing than QUALITY of life?
If you answer "yes", please tell me why.
Ultimately, why further rob her of the beauty of an afterlife when she is as close to a hollow shell of a person that can exist? I know one of the MAJOR shortcomings of the Christian Bible is it's blind eye towards slavery, but why should Terry be enslaved to machinery that only prolongs her compromised existance? Biblical principle?
The word of God is a wonderful and fulfilling doctrine, but I must part ways with many conservatives that find it sensible and "correct" to prop up this woman's woes with the Good Book.
Her continued existance is the abomonation and sin here, in that it runs counter to mercy and what appears to be her wishes in this matter. Hope and faith are POWERFUL things, though it pains me to see so many prey and wish for her continued existance, when it amounts little more than a fervent wish that she be tortured and kept in an entirely unnatural state of existance.
Any 17th century preacher seeing what was being done to her in the hospice in terms of the machinery attached to her would probably scream "witchcraft" and I don't know if he would be out of line in doing so in this particular case.
Mercy is something this woman should finally experience in my opinion and her passing into realms unknown should be the gift that is provided to her, along with prayers of a quick and painless passing, instead of prayers of another decade or so of meaningless existance in limbo, or what I would personally consider "Hell on Earth"...
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 319
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 319 |
what makes us even think we have the right to comment on this?
'98.5 Black Ford Contour SE Sport 5-speed. All the SE Sport features with all the 98features that were supposed to be decontented for 98.5
'04 Silver Toyota RAV4 L Auto. Fully loaded.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Quote:
And as for her husband, who knows why he wants it, or why her parents don't want it. The point is, is that one person wants death before any real treatment or therapy, the other wants life with treatment and therapy because they know that she is in there. I won't argue with them.
You can't argue with her parents, but you'll argue with her husband? You'll argue with the other family members who also heard her say that she never wanted to live like she is now? You'll argue with the judge who ruled that there was "clear and convincing evidence that Terri would choose not to receive life-prolonging medical care"?
Sounds to me like you wouldn't care if she had a video-taped living will dictating exactly what she wanted to happen -- you'd support her parents just because you agree with their position on right-to-life.
Quote:
I can't imagine the amount of time they have spent just holding their daughter's hand.
I guess how much time that her husband spent doesn't count? He is reported by her doctors and in court documents as being "the most regular visitor to his wife" -- and that was before her parents were given the limited access that they have now.
Quote:
As for her parents "forcing" her to be in this state, it's not her. Her husband has, as has been stated before in this conversation and many other places, has refused many of the necessary treatments and therapies that Terry Schiavo would need to get better.
And I've stated before that the "Sky is Green" -- doesn't mean it's true. Read some court documents sometime regarding the exact testimony of her family and doctors instead of relying on biased news reports.
From Judge Greer's Decision:
By all accounts, Mr Schiavo has been very motivated in pursuing the best medical care for his wife, even taking her to California for a month or so for experimental treatment. It is undisputed that he was very aggressive with nursing home personnel to make certain she received the finest of care.
BY ALL ACCOUNTS....IT IS UNDISPUTED.
ALL ACCOUNTS.
Meanwhile, her own father in court transcripts is quoted as saying that he would "cut off her arms and legs and put her on a respirator if it meant [he] could spend more time with her".
Makes me wonder who really has her best interests and wishes in mind.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by DanburySE:
what makes us even think we have the right to comment on this?
The constitution.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,028
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,028 |
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Anyways, I think you just said a lotta crap. Do you realize the legislative sytesm is not the judicial systesm?
Based on your last paragraph, I can see you don't really undestand what is going on. The judicial system gives appeals to everyone (sorta). Do you realize that congress isn't the judicial system? They fubared and decided ONE case. Now (if the judicial system would hold it up, whick they're not, thank God), they would have to decide every right to life case.
Can you explain how I don't understand what is going on? I see the judicial system working, and the Congress making laws to change how that judicial system is supposed to work. That's what happens. Laws are made, judges interpret. Obviously, somebody over the past 15 years has gone back and forth and back and forth on the laws. That's what I see. I see a system as a whole that has swung back and forth for 15 years, ensnaring all involved. Somebody had to make a decision, Congress did that. I understand it all too well, and I've explained how I view it in earlier posts.
Quote:
Sorry, I am drunk. I can't keep trying to explain SIMPLE things to ignorant people. Step away from your 'beliefs' and see what is going on. Whether you agree with what happens or not, look at how our GOVERNMENT is working. It's not good. It will probably never be good, but you probably like it as long as it goes along with your beliefs. Often government goes against what I believe, but when it violates the constitution/is soley based on getting more votes, I'd rather see me ideals shot to hell then that kinda government exist.
Okay, I'll step away from my beliefs when you do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
Can you explain how I don't understand what is going on? I see the judicial system working, and the Congress making laws to change how that judicial system is supposed to work. That's what happens. Laws are made, judges interpret. Obviously, somebody over the past 15 years has gone back and forth and back and forth on the laws. That's what I see. I see a system as a whole that has swung back and forth for 15 years, ensnaring all involved. Somebody had to make a decision, Congress did that. I understand it all too well, and I've explained how I view it in earlier posts.
Congress had no place in this. They made a decision for ONE person. They can't do that. It violates the constitution. We have the judicial system with its appeals,etc. for a reason. Congress just want votes, rather they have to go against the constitution or whatever else to get them.
Quote:
Sorry, I am drunk. I can't keep trying to explain SIMPLE things to ignorant people. Step away from your 'beliefs' and see what is going on. Whether you agree with what happens or not, look at how our GOVERNMENT is working. It's not good. It will probably never be good, but you probably like it as long as it goes along with your beliefs. Often government goes against what I believe, but when it violates the constitution/is soley based on getting more votes, I'd rather see me ideals shot to hell then that kinda government exist.
Okay, I'll step away from my beliefs when you do.
Don't really understand. Yes, I expressed my beliefs on here, but they don't affect how I feel about how our government should be run. If I agreed with congress's decision, I still wouldn't want it to be done, because it's against how our country is supposed to be run. It's fine to have beliefs, it's GREAT, they just shouldn't affect policy making like they have. So step back.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,091
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,091 |
Whats with these fuggin idiots who are trying to rush into the hospice with water and food...if they got to her and poured it into her mouth, she can't swallow, she'd drown...how fuggin stupid are they!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,516
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,516 |
Originally posted by 18psi2300:
Whats with these fuggin idiots who are trying to rush into the hospice with water and food...if they got to her and poured it into her mouth, she can't swallow, she'd drown...how fuggin stupid are they!
I could be wrong, but I think she can swallow, its a reflex. If you couldn't swallow you would drown in your own saliva.
But yea, it will all be over soon, thankfully. Or should I say hopefully...
Cameron
98 Black CSVT #2958
|
|
|
|
|
