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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
I'd rather have social medicine and education than special interests running my country. What exactly do you think you are giving up with Social systems? I have no voice in the US, expensive health care, and a crap primary education system. Over here they have better political representation (yes there exists other system outside the two party system), better education, and people are treated if sick. This is a liberal society based on liberal values just was the US was over 200 years ago. Stop seeing Socialism as enemy to liberty. Tell me, which system would you rather live in? Don't get me wrong, I love the US but it needs a lot of work right now.
Like I said, keep your socialist [censored] on your side of the pond. As for your political representation, I hear the neo-fascists and pseudo-nazi's are growing thanks to all the open arm policies allowing all those immigrants. Have fun in the Fourth Reich.
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Originally posted by JaTo:
My rafting operation from Florida to Cuba hasn't netted me jack-sh!t, even with Bush winning a second term... 
This proves, once and for all, that the United States is better than Cuba.
Originally posted by JaTo:
Consumer debt is a disease that MUST be curved. There are just FAR too many people that exist of off the supplemental income that high-interest debt provides and far too many do it for all the wrong reasons.
Agreed.
Originally posted by JaTo:
Ultimately, the sheer complexity and mostly uncontrollable nature of all of this at a personal level should reinforce one thought: these issues are outside the immediate and direct control of any citizen or group of citizens for the most part.
That's the problem. Ordinary citizens have lost political control in America. Corporate interests now control our quality of life. Both Republicans and Democrats have engaged in a three-decade long effort to change our laws and our economy to favor business interests. Labor and employment laws (such as overtime laws) are weakened or are not enforced. Minimum wage laws are not updated so that the minimum wage is ridiculously low. Rules for outsourcing jobs have been loosened. Huge numbers of foreign workers are granted work visas, further undercutting the work opportunities for American citizens. Unemployment benefits expire sooner. A larger portion of the income tax burden is put on the middle class. Military spending is up. Welfare and food stamp programs have been cut back. Bankruptcy laws may soon become nearly useless for consumers, etc., etc.
Bush has taken favortism for the wealthy to a new level of brazenness. But it was begun over thirty years ago and has been done with bipartisan cooperation.
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Originally posted by PackRat:
Technically I'm at the poverty line
Originally posted by PackRat:
Like I said, keep your socialist [censored] on your side of the pond.
Oh, the irony.
Pack, you personally would benefit a LOT if the U.S. was governed under a Euro-style social-democratic system.
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Originally posted by caltour:
Originally posted by PackRat:
Technically I'm at the poverty line
Originally posted by PackRat:
Like I said, keep your socialist [censored] on your side of the pond.
Oh, the irony.
Pack, you personally would benefit a LOT if the U.S. was governed under a Euro-style social-democratic system.
But at a price. Thank you, I'd rather keep most of what I make, even if it's not a whole lot.
You socialist anti-American asses need to get the [censored] out.
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Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
I'd rather have social medicine and education than special interests running my country. What exactly do you think you are giving up with Social systems? I have no voice in the US, expensive health care, and a crap primary education system. Over here they have better political representation (yes there exists other system outside the two party system), better education, and people are treated if sick. This is a liberal society based on liberal values just was the US was over 200 years ago. Stop seeing Socialism as enemy to liberty. Tell me, which system would you rather live in? Don't get me wrong, I love the US but it needs a lot of work right now.
Like I said, keep your socialist [censored] on your side of the pond. As for your political representation, I hear the neo-fascists and pseudo-nazi's are growing thanks to all the open arm policies allowing all those immigrants. Have fun in the Fourth Reich.
That's a very interesting point of view you have. It's not exactly Neo-Nazis and Fascists. Perhaps you should take a look at political systems around the world. At least there is some choice here and they don't all play for the middle ground. There is virtually no difference between republicans and democrats. Between the four parties here there is a real choice and difference between them. Also you get some representation if you win 5% of the vote. For example if the FPÃ?â?? gets 5% or more of the vote they get a certain number of seats in the Parliament. All I am saying is there is a large group of people who do not buy into either party's rhetoric and want a party that represents them. In Austria there exists the possibility to find a party that represents you and if enough people vote for them they will have a voice; even if it is small.
About the social systems I think your just afraid that you are loosing some sort of liberty by being part of this type of system. So what you are really saying is you would rather have crap result with the US system rather than the results they are having here in Austria?
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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
I'd rather have social medicine and education than special interests running my country. What exactly do you think you are giving up with Social systems? I have no voice in the US, expensive health care, and a crap primary education system. Over here they have better political representation (yes there exists other system outside the two party system), better education, and people are treated if sick. This is a liberal society based on liberal values just was the US was over 200 years ago. Stop seeing Socialism as enemy to liberty. Tell me, which system would you rather live in? Don't get me wrong, I love the US but it needs a lot of work right now.
Like I said, keep your socialist [censored] on your side of the pond. As for your political representation, I hear the neo-fascists and pseudo-nazi's are growing thanks to all the open arm policies allowing all those immigrants. Have fun in the Fourth Reich.
That's a very interesting point of view you have. It's not exactly Neo-Nazis and Fascists. Perhaps you should take a look at political systems around the world. At least there is some choice here and they don't all play for the middle ground. There is virtually no difference between republicans and democrats. Between the four parties here there is a real choice and difference between them. Also you get some representation if you win 5% of the vote. For example if the FPÃ?â?? gets 5% or more of the vote they get a certain number of seats in the Parliament. All I am saying is there is a large group of people who do not buy into either party's rhetoric and want a party that represents them. In Austria there exists the possibility to find a party that represents you and if enough people vote for them they will have a voice; even if it is small.
About the social systems I think your just afraid that you are loosing some sort of liberty by being part of this type of system. So what you are really saying is you would rather have crap result with the US system rather than the results they are having here in Austria?
As long as we keep you socialists on that side of the ocean, yes.
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Originally posted by PackRat:
You socialist anti-American asses need to get the [censored] out.
Oh I am sure the founders wanted people to "get out" when they didn't agree with their point of view. Thanks for name calling and second for calling me Anti-American. How am I Anti-American? I really would like to know how I hate my own country and want to work so hard to change it?
As a side note you do realize the Democrats, though not much different than Republicans, would help you are the poverty line more than Republicans have.
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Originally posted by PackRat:
As long as we keep you socialists on that side of the ocean, yes.
Ok sure thing chief, then you just deal with health care costs and remaining at the poverty line.
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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
As a side note you do realize the Democrats, though not much different than Republicans, would help you are the poverty line more than Republicans have.
Don't be stupid. The Democrats want people at or below the poverty line strictly so they can OWN the issue. They don't want to help us, they want to coddle us and try to dupe us into giving them our vote while the [censored] us in the ass.
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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
Originally posted by PackRat:
As long as we keep you socialists on that side of the ocean, yes.
Ok sure thing chief, then you just deal with health care costs and remaining at the poverty line.
I have health insurance, my health costs are just fine. I'd rather be at the poverty line that sucking on the socialist teat.
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