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Originally posted by path914:
Originally posted by gsxr907:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by gsxr907:
All I am saying is this SE-R is the CSVT of 2005.
I strongly disagree.
For one thing it lacks the handling prowress of any Contour much less an SVT or early SE.
Well I think you a little off on that...
Having driven both, I have to agree with Demon. The extra 400-500lbs and significant torque steer prevent it from being in the same league. Like I've said before though, it is very nice and certainly a good option in 3.5 SE trim.
400-500lbs? Uh, hate to tell you this man but my SVT weighed in at about 3200 lbs, the SE-R is within 100 lbs of that marker, not sure where you're getting your info? 
The SE-R handles a great deal better than the SE model. Ask anyone who has driven both (including me). Much firmer suspension, and much better tires. The SVT I would say "feels" a bit better balanced, but as I've gotten more and more used to this car, I would say it feels different moreso than any actual performance difference. The SVT felt more connected, but I can take the turns at the same clip in the SE-R, which is saying something considering this car is considerably larger than the CDW27 platform was.
You did hit on the one major weakness of the SE-R, and that's availability of an LSD, same as the SVTC's...
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Originally posted by gsxr907:
Watch out!!!!
My new ride is 2005 Altima SE-R
Tell you what they did this car right!
If you are looking to replace Csvt-hands down this is it.
260 hp nice
Big Brakes
18 inch wheels that look Great!
What color did you get?
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Originally posted by ScottK:
Originally posted by gsxr907:
Watch out!!!!
My new ride is 2005 Altima SE-R
Tell you what they did this car right!
If you are looking to replace Csvt-hands down this is it.
260 hp nice
Big Brakes
18 inch wheels that look Great!
Yeah - a bit spendy though (29,880).
Yeah, that's LIST price, you can get it for about 2k less than that, with better service plans, and 1% financing right now.
Quote:
I'd get a base 3.5 SE and save myself 6 grand, then spend maybe 2k on intake, exhaust and struts and be more than happy. 250 hp aint to bad for a base price of 23k!
Yeah, the SE guys over on nissanclub.com have beat this topic to death ugh. Fact is, a loaded SE model runs about 2k less than the SE-R. The tire/wheel package alone costs that much aftermarket (600 each list for the wheels alone - they are lightweight forged wheels). That doesn't include the custom seats, dash, brakes, engine improvements, etc. It's a good deal when you look at it properly. Yeah you can buy a stripper SE with zero options for 23k, and that's exactly what you get...
Quote:
And no ricer SE-R badges either!
SE-R stands for the same thing SVT does, limited production performance variants of ordinary production vehicles. Either we're all rice (meaning all limited production cars), or we're not, there is no middle ground.
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Seriously, if I'm up around 30k anyway I'd start looking at a 298 hp G35 instead (30,600).
That's the base G35 with zero options. The SE-R is the top model of the Alty lineup and has only one option available (safety package for side airbags and TC). Price out the top model of the G35 and you're up in the 35-37k range, considerably higher than 28k OTD for the SE-R, and you get a mass production vehicle with no uniqueness factor.
All that said, I'd sure as heck wished that Nissan would've upped the HP in the SE-R to 280-290HP, but it's too close to the 350Z and G35 series cars...
Last edited by cjbaldw; 03/08/05 07:26 PM.
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Originally posted by jerseycat10:
Originally posted by gsxr907:
pics?
I've got plenty of pics online of mine if anyone's interested...I already posted them up here a while back...
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Originally posted by cjbaldw:
400-500lbs? Uh, hate to tell you this man but my SVT weighed in at about 3200 lbs, the SE-R is within 100 lbs of that marker, not sure where you're getting your info?
That 3200 is with you in the car right?
SVT is published at between 3020 and 3120 in the mags depending on sunroof and how much gas is in the tank (more useful than dealer listed because each manufacturer does dealer weights differently). Mine was 3050 on the scales with about 1/4 tank, sunroof, spare/jack, and a baby seat..
IIRC mags place Altima at about 3250-3300 with the 3.5. Do you have an actual weight?
I would "guess" alti is about +200-250 lb.
Suprising the SE-R handles as well as you say with that weight & wheelbase...plenty-o-power though.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
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Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
That 3200 is with you in the car right?
SVT is published at between 3020 and 3120 in the mags depending on sunroof and how much gas is in the tank (more useful than dealer listed because each manufacturer does dealer weights differently). Mine was 3050 on the scales with about 1/4 tank, sunroof, spare/jack, and a baby seat..
IIRC mags place Altima at about 3250-3300 with the 3.5. Do you have an actual weight?
I would "guess" alti is about +200-250 lb.
Suprising the SE-R handles as well as you say with that weight & wheelbase...plenty-o-power though.
No, that was w/o me in the car, at a weighing station, had some junk in the trunk as well (probably around 50 or so lbs). I'd guess my SVT weighed in at around 3150 with a full tank of gas.
"Rated" weight of the SE-R is 3287 to be exact. Rather extensive use of aluminum for body panels and suspension parts keeps the weight down on the Alty platform considering the size of the car. (the alty and maxima share the same frame/chassis)
As I said, the SVT felt more planted, and had better steering feel. The SE-R feels a bit numb in the steering department comparatively, and overall feels a bit more disconnected as a whole. I'm still getting used to this car though. We all know every car is different in this respect.  If I could characterize it in words I'd say the SVT felt a bit more like a RWD car than the SE-R does in the curves. Both are very agile performers for what they are.
The SE-R is quick because it's geared out pretty well (on top of the VQ series engine). The final drive is 4.133 and the individual gears on the 6-speed are very well matched to the powertrain. I bought this car late October so I've not gotten to the track yet, I hope to run it sometime early spring and get some numbers. I'd say this car if launched well on Nittos could post low 14's or even 14 flat at around 100MPH well driven. Only time will tell for sure...
Last edited by cjbaldw; 03/08/05 08:09 PM.
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Originally posted by cjbaldw:
Originally posted by ScottK:
Originally posted by gsxr907:
Watch out!!!!
My new ride is 2005 Altima SE-R
Tell you what they did this car right!
If you are looking to replace Csvt-hands down this is it.
260 hp nice
Big Brakes
18 inch wheels that look Great!
Yeah - a bit spendy though (29,880).
Yeah, that's LIST price, you can get it for about 2k less than that, with better service plans, and 1% financing right now.
Quote:
I'd get a base 3.5 SE and save myself 6 grand, then spend maybe 2k on intake, exhaust and struts and be more than happy. 250 hp aint to bad for a base price of 23k!
Yeah, the SE guys over on nissanclub.com have beat this topic to death ugh. Fact is, a loaded SE model runs about 2k less than the SE-R. The tire/wheel package alone costs that much aftermarket (600 each list for the wheels alone - they are lightweight forged wheels). That doesn't include the custom seats, dash, brakes, engine improvements, etc. It's a good deal when you look at it properly. Yeah you can buy a stripper SE with zero options for 23k, and that's exactly what you get...
Quote:
And no ricer SE-R badges either!
SE-R stands for the same thing SVT does, limited production performance variants of ordinary production vehicles. Either we're all rice (meaning all limited production cars), or we're not, there is no middle ground.
Quote:
Seriously, if I'm up around 30k anyway I'd start looking at a 298 hp G35 instead (30,600).
That's the base G35 with zero options. The SE-R is the top model of the Alty lineup and has only one option available (safety package for side airbags and TC). Price out the top model of the G35 and you're up in the 35-37k range, considerably higher than 28k OTD for the SE-R, and you get a mass production vehicle with no uniqueness factor.
All that said, I'd sure as heck wished that Nissan would've upped the HP in the SE-R to 280-290HP, but it's too close to the 350Z and G35 series cars...
A "stripper" G35 6MT comes with leather, sport suspension, 52/48 weight distribution and RWD, as well as the usual power accessories, AC, and basic sound system. Options are mostly useless bling, like reclining rear seats, big woofers, nav system, etc. Nothing I really care about.
I like how the Altima looks, and I think with a few suspension upgrades, it would be a nice package. I like the stock SE alloys. I don't want 18" boat anchors. I don't want stereo bling. The SE-R addresses the main problem (suspension) with a mild upgrade, adds 10hp, and the rest is poser flash. Yes, I'd take a "stripper" 3.5 SE, upgrade the suspension beyond what the SE-R offers, add a cat-back and maybe an intake. Voila. SE-R beating performance for thousands less.
Maybe that's not a marketable idea. Maybe the reality is that the masses want a "nicer" car to go with the badge. That's too bad, because the original Sentra SE-R was pretty no-nonsense, and people respected that. Now, nicer means bigger wheels and more cowbell. Oh, and 10hp and mild suspension upgrade for $6k.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by RogerB:
A "stripper" G35 6MT comes with leather, sport suspension, 52/48 weight distribution and RWD, as well as the usual power accessories, AC, and basic sound system. Options are mostly useless bling, like reclining rear seats, big woofers, nav system, etc. Nothing I really care about.
Yes, and at the end of the day you still have a run of the mill G35 sedan just like everyone else drives. Personally, I've not seen one other SE-R Alty on the road in the five months I've owned this car. I also enjoyed this same uniqueness in the SVTC I had. I've seen countless G35 sedans and coupes though (and countless contours as well when I had the SVT)! And I wouldn't term big brake and wheel packages bling bling. They are meaningful performance modifications to any vehicle that result in meaningful performance advantages.
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I like how the Altima looks, and I think with a few suspension upgrades, it would be a nice package. I like the stock SE alloys. I don't want 18" boat anchors. I don't want stereo bling. The SE-R addresses the main problem (suspension) with a mild upgrade, adds 10hp, and the rest is poser flash.
The forged 18" wheels on the SE-R actually weigh less than the 17" wheel package on the SE (forged versus cast), so boat anchors they are not. The mild suspension upgrade is the same kind of upgrades given to the SVT over the normal CDW27's. Tuned struts/shocks/suspension, larger diameter sway bars, etc.
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Yes, I'd take a "stripper" 3.5 SE, upgrade the suspension beyond what the SE-R offers, add a cat-back and maybe an intake. Voila. SE-R beating performance for thousands less.
Yes and I could do the same with an SE model Contour in regard to the SVT model. Same old argument I've seen time and time again whenever a bigger/better/faster model is introduced in an existing lineup, for more money.
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Maybe that's not a marketable idea. Maybe the reality is that the masses want a "nicer" car to go with the badge. That's too bad, because the original Sentra SE-R was pretty no-nonsense, and people respected that. Now, nicer means bigger wheels and more cowbell. Oh, and 10hp and mild suspension upgrade for $6k.
2k, not 6k, equalling out the installed equipment on the car. I understand your point, obviously you don't care about driving a limited edition model car, and you don't care about leather and other such amenities, but other people do. I agree that I'd liked to have seen more HP in the SE-R and an LSD. Heck I hope they bump up the HP numbers next model year and offer the LSD as an option (like they did in the Spec-V Sentra).
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Originally posted by cjbaldw:
2k, not 6k, equalling out the installed equipment on the car. I understand your point, obviously you don't care about driving a limited edition model car, and you don't care about leather and other such amenities, but other people do. I agree that I'd liked to have seen more HP in the SE-R and an LSD. Heck I hope they bump up the HP numbers next model year and offer the LSD as an option (like they did in the Spec-V Sentra).
2k? 6k? Somewhere in between. You're comparing an optioned out 3.5 SE to an SE-R with no options and dealer discount.
OK, so it's a 6k difference before I go out and buy the right parts. After that, it depends on what kind of deals I can find, etc. So, you're right, it's less than 6k, but I think 2k is pushing it. I also hadn't figured brakes.
You want exclusivity? Most people don't know what SE-R or SVT mean. They see "family sedan" regardless.
G35 ROTM? Yeah, I see them more and more every day. Just like there's 6 or 7 Altimas in the parking lot right now. Who cares if one of them is red with big wheels and some kind of "R" badge? What's that mean? (being facetious, here, but I hope you see my point.) I get the same flak about my Contour, because everyone thinks of the 4 beater GLs with skinny tires and steelies that they saw on the way to work this morning. There's nothing "limited edition" about the SVT-C or the SE-R to anyone but the enthusiast.
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obviously you don't care about driving a limited edition model car, and you don't care about leather and other such amenities, but other people do.
I repeat, the G35 6MT comes with leather, and I wouldn't mind that. I'd rather, though, that it were available with cloth to bring the price and weight down further. (They add the leather to equalize pricing between the MT and automatic base models.) As for external appearances, most people wouldn't know that I was driving a "special" G35 sedan, as there is no badging. Wheels are different, and the car sits a bit lower. Only the enthusiast would know, and that is the way I like it.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by RogerB:
2k? 6k? Somewhere in between. You're comparing an optioned out 3.5 SE to an SE-R with no options and dealer discount.
An 05 SE with the leather sport option package MSRP's for 28380. This does NOT include the safety package, which on either car is an 800.00 option. The MSRP for the 05 SE-R (which actually has more standard equipment) is 29,880, or a difference of exactly 1500 dollars. I was actually being generous with the 2k difference. The ONLY option on the SE-R is automatic tranny (same price as the auto option for the SE) and the safety package (also the exact same price as the SE option).
My overall point is that when making such comparisons between models you must equip them identically before you can argue over price, because most of the price difference between a stripper SE and the SE-R is because the SE-R simply ships with all options as standard except the safety package and the auto tranny. Also, these are MSRP prices, I'm clearly not taking into account any discounts. These prices are straight off the nissanusa.com build website.
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You want exclusivity? Most people don't know what SE-R or SVT mean. They see "family sedan" regardless.
Agreed, but I never said I cared what other people thought. I know the difference, and that's all I care about. The SE-R, just like the SVT, is also a specifically different manufacturer's model and therefore the value is inherent in the car. If, as you state, you buy an SE for 24k and go spend 6k on mods, you will basically get nothing in return for the price of those mods when you sell the vehicle. Mods are worth nothing unless it's a very highly modified vehicle, or certain kinds of niche vehicles or classic cars. That's why most people part out the mods when they sell the car. On the other hand, the SVT and SE-R type vehicles are already "modded" and warrantied by the manufacturer, therefore the mod value is inherently built into the vehicle for good.
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G35 ROTM? Yeah, I see them more and more every day. Just like there's 6 or 7 Altimas in the parking lot right now. Who cares if one of them is red with big wheels and some kind of "R" badge? What's that mean? (being facetious, here, but I hope you see my point.) I get the same flak about my Contour, because everyone thinks of the 4 beater GLs with skinny tires and steelies that they saw on the way to work this morning. There's nothing "limited edition" about the SVT-C or the SE-R to anyone but the enthusiast.
Limited edition no, limited production, yes. Nissan is building 12k SE-R's. SVT only built so many SVTC's, therefore exclusivity is guaranteed. The most valuable classic cars are those with limited production numbers.
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I repeat, the G35 6MT comes with leather, and I wouldn't mind that. I'd rather, though, that it were available with cloth to bring the price and weight down further. (They add the leather to equalize pricing between the MT and automatic base models.) As for external appearances, most people wouldn't know that I was driving a "special" G35 sedan, as there is no badging. Wheels are different, and the car sits a bit lower. Only the enthusiast would know, and that is the way I like it.
Understood. I would state that most people are capable of realizing that there's something "different" amongst models. They may not know what SE-R or SVT or Spec-V or A-Spec or Type-S means, but they know there's definitely something different about the car, it doesn't take a genius. Agreed, most don't care, but I do. I don't like to see myself everywhere I go. I love those little moments when someone pulls up beside me and chats it up because they recognize a limited production car (like a guy in a new M3 the other day) when they see one.
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