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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149 |
Two things are killing the big three IMNSHO. #1 Years and years of poor product. #2 Legacy costs. Just google GM and legacy cost, its astounding. In 2003, GM had 2.53 retired workers for every worker on the job. Over $1000 of *every* vehicle sale goes straight to legacy costs. Thank you union!
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 433
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 433 |
Semper Fi...
It's Hard To Be Modest When You Know
You're The Best...
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 655
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 655 |
I would like to post a couple of interesting things.
First off, I didn't even go to a domestic car dealer to look for a new car. I don't like anything they have to offer in the smaller car segment.
Secondly, here at school almost no one drives a Ford , GM, or Chrysler. People are embarassed to say I drive a Chevy, but they'll say I drive a Hyundai with no hesitation. There is a certain sense of superiority that comes with owning a import name plate car for a lot of people.
Thirdly, when I recently went and ordered my new Toyota, the sticker that lists the car's place of assembly as well as percentage of US content was still on the car. Do you know what it said?
This Toyota Corolla was assembled at the NUMMI plant in Freemont Cali. It was assembled by American auto workers with over 70 perecnt American made componets.
The only thing in this car that isn't American built is the engine and transmission. Compare that to the Ford Focus.
It seems to me that we are supporting America by buying Japanese cars. They employ a lot of workers here, both of my Uncles included. I'd rather spend my money on my Toyota or a Honda, and keep my Uncles employed than to buy a Focus and employing more Mexicans.
Last edited by red99sesport; 03/02/05 07:39 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,395
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,395 |
Ford is my favorite. Dealt with so little in repairing them, but dealt with repairing alot of GM, Mitsu/Chrysler, a few Honduhs, and so on. Out of the Ford experience we have, they have been the most reliable, and my neighbor's new Focus shows how nice they still are. I would definatly buy another Ford considering they have been a good car. No matter what Ford and General Motors will still exist due to the fact they make Trucks. Real Trucks. Not pansy ass toy-trucks. (Well the S10 can be considered a Toy  ) Only imported Pickups I can think of are Toyota and Nissan. I dont like Nissan, but I know Toyota's can take a beating. I would still prefer a nice truck such as the Ford F-150.
Former owner of a 1995 Ford Contour GL w/ 2.0L ATX
Proud owner of a 2005 Ford Taurus SE 3.0L V6 Vulcan 
--Looking for Commodore stuff (Drives, Units, Amiga, games, etc)If anyone has any of this laying around and wants it gone, lemme know  --
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,143
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,143 |
IMO, things will get worse before they get better. When the oil crisis hit many people switched to imports because the US car companies didn't have much to offer in that part of the market. Many of these people have stayed with them since then, raising families where their kids first car was probably an import. Some people might have come back for trucks/suvs but the Japanese have been getting into that market recently too.
I think the unions do play a part in it, although they are not solely to blame. They do add up to a higher labor cost, which when you are making run-of-the-mill cars, does not work out so well. IMO, the UAW, the 3 "domestic" (if you want to count DCX) companies and maybe even the gov't need to sit down and come to a realization that if the unions do not relax their demands the high costs will keep making things worse and worse where eventually people won't have jobs....
"Bros before Hoes" <-- More men need this mentality.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,290
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
Originally posted by livinsvt: In this time with war and the threat of Terroists, we can only beneift from supporting our country. Our economy needs it.
We're always going to be involved in some mess somewhere in the world. We're not currently being asked to sacrifice anything for any "war effort." But of course the American economy would benefit from more domestic purchases as it always has.
As of now the manufacturers' finance divisions are the only operations making money. Trucks are still a bright spot for the domestics, but of course Japan has finally gotten around to tackling that market, and the domestics have their work cut out for them there.
It all gets down to product. GM finally realized that a few years ago when they hired Lutz.
E0 #36
'95 Ranger
'82 Honda CX500
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Further bad news released today actually:
GM today reported that February sales were a whopping 13% below expectations, Ford still down but with only 3%. Both announced they'd be cutting production as a result, GM just shut down their Lansing plant. Most of the downfall is Trucks/SUVs, the bread and butter of American manufacturers, which have been on the downslide in sales the 3 years or so. Increasing competition from the Japanese in the truck market isn't helping matters any as the market gets further diluted.
Not good news considering all the new models that both were betting on being big hits. Asian manufacturers reported a gain of 4% market share last month. Toyota and Hyundai recorded record Februarys, Toyota with an increase of 11% in sales, Hyundai a huge increase of 19%. Honda on the other hand, with it's aged-looking models, down quite a bit -- 7% for the month.
For Ford though there is a silver-lining as of late.
The 500, Montego, and Freestyle are up 35% over January -- not a bad feat considering the bad weather in much of the nation and being a short month. The Mustang also up 32%. Volvo and Land Rover are also expected to do very well this year. Ford cars are up a pretty strong 8% -- trucks are down 8%. So, despite most of Ford's cars not doing well critically, perhaps Ford hasn't done so bad. And with the Fusion coming along, things could be looking up for Ford as long as they don't botch it up.
Financially, Ford is far from the horrible shape it was just a few years ago. It's beaten expectations 12 out of 13 quarters -- far from an easy task. And Ford made $3.5B in profit in 2004 -- 7 times what it made in 2003.
It's not all about marketshare, although that really is very important. Marketshare doesn't mean anything if you're not making the money you need to improve existing products and develop new ones. That's exactly where Ford, and the rest of the US auto industry was at just a few years ago. The Daimler buyout of Chrysler gave it the funds and expertise it needed to be the absolute powerhouse that it is today. Ford had a much-needed CEO change and did a lot of restructuring, which, yes, meant that people had to be laid off. But today its' making money. Quite a bit of it. Financially it's as competitive as any of its' rivals and more competitive than many more. GM is launching new products out the wazzoo and claims to be making significant strides to improve quality -- unfortunately that isn't panning out for them yet; but it could be too early to tell. GM has massive potential, it's an absolute powerhouse, ,but there's a whole lot of fat to be cut. And it needed to cut it yesterday.
Last edited by sigma; 03/02/05 08:43 PM.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 197
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 197 |
can u Evan call the big 3 the big 3 anymore? i think the number 1 issue is the quality of the product regardless of the company. Just look at how many recalls there are on the 1995 contour alone, last time I looked it was 10. Look at what ford did with the taurus sho (96-99) in 1997 it was brought to fords attention that the engines were faulty causing the timing belt to brake and the piston to hit the valve and what did they do in 1997? They kept using them for 2 more years with no regrets. Look at how may recalls there are for the focus like 7 I believe for the 2002. and looking back at the contours the v6 in particular the plastic impellers in the water pump... the water pump is the only thing that keeps the engine from over heating when those plastic impellers brake the engine will only receive cooling from the oil (which wonâ??t do much at all) if this problem happens in the summer you wouldn't even know until your engine stops working one day and u will never see it happening because with no coolant moving around in your system your temp gauge will reed that it is normal. And there wasn't a recall on this issue give me a brake. When ford learns to commit its self to quality control I will go back to them but Intel that time it will be only Honda and Toyota for me. Also look at the brand new 2.3 engine in the focus and Mazda 3. The water pump seals are braking. THIS IS A BRAND NEW ENGINE AND AFTER BEING IN USE FOR 6 MONTHS MANY ARE FAULTY. Who wants to drive a crap bucket that u have to pour in thousands of dollars every year to keep it on the road. If u want to look at quality look at Honda and Toyota. By brothers old 1991 4 door civic should of fallen apart years ago. It had 270000km when he got it. He had the same oil in it for over 3 years which buy the way there wasn't Evan enough to register on the dipstick. The cooling system was semi plugged due to the extremely old coolant in it. And yet the power train still kept going After taking this much abus. my gf's mom has a 98 corolla that hasen t had a problem ever. It has now 200 000km and has only ever had the fluids/brakes /filters/tires and plugs replaced. Its a 7 year old car and nothing has gone wrong. show me a ford that has done that.
RIP Frank Foreman. March 15 2005. died in a tragic car crash at the age of 18.<Drive Safe>
1995 Contour gl Zetec auto.
178000km
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066 |
Originally posted by Kremithefrog: Doubt will ever lose US manufacturers. I don't really care if they're making $20 billion or $40 billion, they're still making money. And no I don't care about economics and my ideas are based on my own fantasy world. I think it'll just make American companies step up, which I think they're already doing. Sorta hard to change people's brain washed opinions that imports are always better.
One is already gone. Chrysler now is part of Merc.
I already posted a long diatribe about this (or maybe on another message board).
Ford and GM executive and management boards need to be gutted. They produce hardly any sporty cars. They don't take any chances. And if you're going to do that, at least make your cars reliable and economical.
I'm not sure if unions, pensions and stuff are killing the outlays, but what I do know is why nobody buys their cars. Enthusiasts hardly buy them because they aren't sporty, families don't buy them because they aren't reliable.
I mean honestly, they're going to stuff a 5.3 V8 into the next Impala. WTF ? Nobody's buying 500's or G6's, Why you ask ? Cause they're uglier than sin, and nobody knows what the hell they are cause they CHANGED THE NAMES YET AGAIN !
The only reason why Ford and GM are still alive are fleet purchasers and their financing arms.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Here's a post I wrote up a few months ago when a similar topic came up. It was in response to:
Quote:
I'm not saying Toyota is perfect, but name any Japanese company (less Mitsubishi) with the level and frequency of recalls that American companies have... I can't think of any.
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Infiniti G35: 51
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Honda Accord (V6): 40
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Nissan Altima (V6): 40
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Mazda6s: 22
(Note this car is produced at a Ford facility in Michigan)
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Ford Taurus: 20
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Ford Focus: 10
I picked those purely at random. Surprising results?
Now, for comparisons sake here's a couple more:
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Chevrolet Cavalier: 75
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Dodge Neon: 21
Number of Recalls, TSBs, etc on the 2003 Dodge Stratus (V6): 26
So far, picking these out at random, only the piece of crap Cavalier has the G35, the Altima, or the Accord "beat".
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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