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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,517
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,517 |
Originally posted by Horse:
If money were no option I would use a nice lysholm super with an IC. But thats me
I agree, that or a good single turbo kit (for my Cobra). Only problem is I like to road race so a positive displacement blower sitting on top of the engine coupled with heavy dual over head cam cylinder heads really wreaks havoc on the handling characteristics.
I think I might just build a 5L stroker with some good cams and call it quits - stay away from forced induction completely.
Now on the 'tour I think a centrifugal blower (one with a significantly better track record than the current Vortechs) would be great due to the lack of traction at low speeds, high RPM's. FWD sucks!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 495
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 495 |
Originally posted by chknhwk:
A small four cylinder with low low end torque can really come alive with a positive displacement blower (i.e. Jackson Racing) and a centrifugal blower would have to wait longer to add significant gains.
It's all about the power under the curve.
As we're talking about the Tour with either a zetec 4 or duratec 6, I couldn't let this go. NO SC, especially the Jackson racing beats a turbo at the same boost, all things being equal. Even with all things not equal, you need to heavily NA mod the JR to get it close to a stock engine turbo's power. And the turbo's area under the curve, kills the JR. Actually the Vortech is way better than the JR, in every respect, and in a few cases has beaten a turbo's HP numbers but not it's TQ numbers.
The main reason for this, is a properly sized turbo will make it's full boost well before a SC will make it's full boost. A JR on a Zetec won't make full boost til near the redline, a turbo will make full boost around 2500rpms-3400rpms depending on it's size. Mine does 9psi by 2700rpms. This gives me 200wtq around 3500rpms. A JRSC never sees 200wtq at 9psi.
2000 Rio Red I4 Cougar
200whp & 210wtq at 9psi
254whp & 276wtq with NX 35shot
WRX TD04 Turbo, Cut Short Shifter, Strut Tower Bar, 17" ZN Wheels, Roush Springs, Starion Intercooler, NX 35 shot, HKS SS BOV, Full 3" exhaust,StreetFlight Chip
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223
"Absolut Rara."
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"Absolut Rara."
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223 |
how come I'm not seeing parasitic losses mentioned?
A blower takes a lot of power to spin, so it will take a higher boost pressure to make the same net power with a blower than a turbo setup, regardless of the blower type.
Granted, with a turbo, you lose most if not all of your exhaust scavenging effects, but that is small compared to the power required to spin a blower.
Like has been said before in a number of different ways, the characteristics of an engine, forced induction or not, need to be matched with the application for best results.
Case in point, I help build and race mustangs in Grand Am cup, I have the option of using a 5.0L DOHC in NA form, or a 4.6L DOHC w/ the stock cobra blower. Because our races are endurance races, where we stop for fuel, I would never consider the blown engine because of its fuel consumption, even though I can easily make more power with it.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,279
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,279 |
I guess it comes down to how much torque you want? Personally the SC would be more streetable because the power comes on after you get moving. The turbo gets full boost right where the Vortech starts making it (damn near atleast)
If the new SC is more reliable, which it should be. The upgrade we did to the older models has yet to fail in any instance. So without a shaft failure I think the SC is not a bad option, but is not the absolute best option.
Previous Owner of 00 SVT Contour #1077/2150 
95 Contour SE '01 3L 
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,294
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,294 |
Originally posted by Stazi:
Originally posted by chknhwk:
. Some engines respond really well to positive displacement blowers and some like centrifugal blowers.
This is a very weird statemnt. I don't think engines really respond differently to boost because of how it was made; 5psi out of a turbo is 5psi out of an S/C if they are both at the same temp and flow.
What makes the difference in either f/i device is that s/c's are more linear that t/c's and also each one can produce varying output temps.
At the end of the day, which either method produces the coolest charge will make the best power (if you assume identical intercoolers on both setups).
But with a well designed t/c system you can get max boost quicker than with an s/c which will give you ,ore tq under the curve which will make the car faster.
Stazi, there is a really nice write up about different super chargers in this months sport compact, Its part of a multipart series sport compact was doing. It talks about the different types of power that super chargers can produce depending on what type of setup they are. I am sure this can also be used to say what different turbo setups offer as well. I didn't get time to read the whole article, but it was very interesting to read some of that.
95 SES Sold
99 SE Sport Sold
99 SVT T-Red Tan Interior. K&N, Magnecors, 19' Theorys, And some audio stuff.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 36
New CEG\'er
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OP
New CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 36 |
svtprodigy "i would take sssstttttsshhh over whine over anyday of the week" Listen to this svt lightning whine!!!!! Just click on the dyno video after you go to my link. http://www.magnumpowers.com/light_idx.html
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,190
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,190 |
Notice how you said lightning...how about you get a sound clip of a contour then i might take sides...I was talking whining on our car..Like i said my walbro whines enough. I would rather it be a sleeper...
PLEASE HELP ME GET MY CAR TOGETHER! ITS IN DAYTON OHIO! I need the motor together and in the car so i can DRIVE it! Pleeeeeese!
diamond pistons for 3.0/forsale
#702 of 2150
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 36
New CEG\'er
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OP
New CEG\'er
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I am not saying I would rather have a vortech for my car because I wouldn't. I would definately take the adc turbo kit. All I am saying is that a turbo and a supercharger both have there good points and there bad ones depending on there application. The sound clip was added just for your remark on the whine sound a supercharger makes. Personally I love the sound a supercharger and a turbo makes
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 183
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 183 |
I, personally, would have to say an adc turbo for a tour is the best thing. Sure its a little more but you get what you pay for. As for large displacement engines...its a supercharger and until they can put 351's and 302's in a tour then im sticking with a turbo.
The "Bluer Tour" 1998.5 SVTour
R.I.P. 2000 ATX Tour SE
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