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Originally posted by dutchie:
good for corporate america, but I doubt the benefits will ever make it to the average american/canadian.
This is exactly the point. Outsourcing is making a very small number of people (i.e. corporate managers, owners, big investors) very rich. The rest of us are losing our jobs or facing stagnant (or decreasing) wages.
It's the principle of supply and demand. American business can now draw on a cheap labor pool overseas, so the "supply" of cheap labor for American business is nearly infinite. The inevitable result is a reduction in real wages for Americans.
Many Americans (who used to have decent jobs at a decent wage) are now relying on a combination of low wage McJobs and government assistance to get by. For example, many American workers rely on government-subsidized hospital emergency rooms for their primary medical care, on vouchers for rent subsidies, on school lunch programs and food stamps for food, and on federal tax credits for child care subsidies, etc. Essentially, our taxes pay for a kind of "supplemental public funding" of low wage work. Those huge CEO salaries and huge corporate profits are made possible in part by generous support of taxpayers like you and me.
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Originally posted by Pudmunkie:
The problem comes with unions, workers want close to 15 dollars for unskilled labor like assembling a switch.
Wage differential is a big part of it, but an even bigger part is the legal and regulatory costs of doing business in the States vs. a developing nation. Could the US government devise a system of incentives to keep those jobs in the States? Probably, but would the costs be worth it?
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Corporate america does it to save money for themselves, and they are completely within their rights to do so. It may suck for out economy, but they're not doing anything wrong.
Hopefully some companies (IE: Dell) will notice that your average american person CAN'T SPEAK INDIAN and fix the problem, but it's going to have to wait until their pockets start hurting again.
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Originally posted by Pudmunkie:
Its horrible for the economy, but nearly a necessary evil.
The problem comes with unions, workers want close to 15 dollars for unskilled labor like assembling a switch. Comapnies cant afford to create certain products here in the states, often finding themselves LOSING money per product, where they WILL make money producing the same product in china
And is $15/hour unreasonable?? How about taking a look at the cost of living and inflation rates since the minimun wage was instituted. If minimum wage had been increased yearly to keep up with growing costs and increasing productivity rates it would be around $15/hour, or if it merely kept up with the POVERTY line it would be ~$7.00/hour
http://www.seiu.org/action_center/issues_and_action/economic_security/minimum_wage.cfm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0829-08.htm
http://www.bpichicago.org/rah/pubs/minimumwage.pdf
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwagefaq
The problem has already been stated, the rich like to keep the money for themselves. And unfortunately even if the minimun wage was increased to combat this phenomenon, the corporate leaders would increase costs to ensure their grasp on the top of the wage scale. Corporate American's generally lack the ethics required for persons in their positions. A classic comic book line comes to mind "With great power comes great responsibility!" (Uncle Ben, Spiderman).
Profit caps will be the only way society can control the downward spiral that corporatations have started us on. By restricting the maximum amount a buisness can charge above production costs (materials, utilities, Employee Wages, real-estate, etc.) there will be nothing gained by abusing the work force, in fact capping profit will promote wage growth and expand the work force, because higher expenses allow for a buisness to take in more money before hitting the cap.
The Workforce Must Unite and Work for the Good of Everyone, or else I will be the end of us all.
How long can the upper-echelon survive if society lacks the spending power to keep them there?
Intelligent buisnessmen will look to keeping themselves wealthy for the long term, unfortunately, most are being short-sighted.
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Originally posted by Pope:
And is $15/hour unreasonable?? How about taking a look at the cost of living and inflation rates since the minimun wage was instituted. If minimum wage had been increased yearly to keep up with growing costs and increasing productivity rates it would be around $15/hour, or if it merely kept up with the POVERTY line it would be ~$7.00/hour
I got news for you, minimum wage is not meant to be something you support a family of six on.
Quote:
The Workforce Must Unite and Work for the Good of Everyone, or else I will be the end of us all.
Did you steal that from some pro-union [censored] pamphlet?
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Originally posted by Davo:
One thing is certain, Wal-Mart outsources from Mars or somewhere, because the people working there certainly aren't human.  
Neither are people from Nebraska. I tell ya that drive from Omaha to the I-76 junction to Denver was really wierd.
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Originally posted by TheGreatOne:
Corporate america does it to save money for themselves, and they are completely within their rights to do so. It may suck for out economy, but they're not doing anything wrong.
Wait a minute, Oh Great One. Are you perhaps confusing legality with morality? An action can be perfectly legal but also perfectly immoral.
You said that outsourcing "sucks for our economy". I agree: outsourcing causes Americans to lose their jobs, and over the long run this could kill our economy (remember, consumer spending is the largest component of our economy). Big-shot CEOs and other outsourcing managers are selling our economy down the river for short term profits. So why don't you just admit that's wrong? Those CEOs have a duty of loyalty to this country, just like you and me. They are responsible for not selling out our national interests to make a fast buck for a few big investors. The harm could take generations to repair. Why are you so quick to let these scumbags off the hook?
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Quote:
And is $15/hour unreasonable??
For putting together a switch on an assembly line all day? Yes it is. Its those jobs that either should be outsourced, or automated.
You're point about minimum wage is futile. As Packrat said, minimum wage is not meant to support a family. At 16, or 17 years old, working a parttime job, minimum wage puts a nice little chunk of change in yer pocket, and teached you the value of the dollar. Raising minimum wage will only put MANY small businesses under.
Do you seriously think I should pay the 2 guys at my shop whos job it is to change tires $15 an hour? If I did that, we'd have never made it, and would have closed up shop within 6 months.
The bottom line is, our world is changing, and its time to grow up with it. People need to educate themselves in a competitve industry, and they will be fine. When my last programming position was outsourced I was bumped to project manager, along with a NICE salary increase. 15 programmers lost their jobs during that shake up, but ya know what, every single one of them have good management jobs now, because they didn't sit on their asses and whine, they went and educated themselves for the changing marketplace.
People need to stop being lazy, and expecting cushy jobs with high pay, and this would go away. Its that simple.
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What's moral or immoral isn't for me to say. You say these companies are responsible for not selling out out "national interests." Who says? You? Millions of unskilled laborers stamping sheetmetal at a factory all day? Please. Welcome to capitalism man. It's all about $$$. Where have you been?
EternalOne is right, the american people need to educate themselves more and stop whining about the pay at the local deli or for unskilled labor.
Originally posted by caltour:
Originally posted by TheGreatOne:
Corporate america does it to save money for themselves, and they are completely within their rights to do so. It may suck for out economy, but they're not doing anything wrong.
Wait a minute, Oh Great One. Are you perhaps confusing legality with morality? An action can be perfectly legal but also perfectly immoral.
You said that outsourcing "sucks for our economy". I agree: outsourcing causes Americans to lose their jobs, and over the long run this could kill our economy (remember, consumer spending is the largest component of our economy). Big-shot CEOs and other outsourcing managers are selling our economy down the river for short term profits. So why don't you just admit that's wrong? Those CEOs have a duty of loyalty to this country, just like you and me. They are responsible for not selling out our national interests to make a fast buck for a few big investors. The harm could take generations to repair. Why are you so quick to let these scumbags off the hook?
1999 Silver Frost SVT
#609 of 2760
Quaife, lightened SVT Flywheel, SPEC stage II clutch, removed resonator, k&n drop in - various other goodies too.
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