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No point in opening them sooner, if you do it = loss of intake velocity+ loss of good fuel mixing = loss of power.The velocity of the incoming air is missed,its reason is to improve fuel mix & cylinder fill at lower engine speeds........
V6 MTX
'Don't p**s up my back then tell me it's raining!!!"
'Its only nuts & bolts!'
'If I build it,fix it,upgrade it or modify it...MAYBE they will come....!
Haines Motor Sports Inc,
Dealer for 'Quaife America' & 'Autotech Sport Tuning'
SOLE USA Dealer for the American Axle 'AUSSIE BAR'...
Get a Turbo for you Zetec from HMS Inc...by 'The Demon' ...www.DemonDynamics.co.uk
..don't talk about it DO IT !!!
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Well, I can feel a power loss just before the secondaries open. As the dyno chart shows, it would help to open those secondaries sooner. I suspect that Ford programmed it the way they did for fuel economy purposes. I'd like them to open ~2750 RPMs. Oh, and how do I go about getting a DMD from you? Your PMs are full.... 
"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive." - President George W. Bush
95 Contour SE ATX V6
"Cracked" Secondaries
DMD Installed
SVT Brakes
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Joined: Sep 2000
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DMD..Check or mo to Haines Motor Sports Inc, 6221 Blakely Dr NE, Rockford Mi 49341.Include shipping adress(no po boxes) and day phone # for shipping co, cost is $130.58 (incl of s&h)..TH
V6 MTX
'Don't p**s up my back then tell me it's raining!!!"
'Its only nuts & bolts!'
'If I build it,fix it,upgrade it or modify it...MAYBE they will come....!
Haines Motor Sports Inc,
Dealer for 'Quaife America' & 'Autotech Sport Tuning'
SOLE USA Dealer for the American Axle 'AUSSIE BAR'...
Get a Turbo for you Zetec from HMS Inc...by 'The Demon' ...www.DemonDynamics.co.uk
..don't talk about it DO IT !!!
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847
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k, thanks Terry, will be sometime next month when I send out the check, I just bought a 2000 Windstar and funds are a bit tight after the down payment 
"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive." - President George W. Bush
95 Contour SE ATX V6
"Cracked" Secondaries
DMD Installed
SVT Brakes
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Posts: 460
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OP
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Originally posted by Fast4DrSVT:
Po PO I don't know exactly what you did but I love my car with no secondary butterflies as apposed to with. My car pulls just as much low as it did before if not more but top end is fantastic.
Thanks,
Eric I simply removed the butterflies from the rod. Nothing more, nothing less. I know that my butt-dyno did not tell me the truth with them out. I thought that I had more power. The harsh truth (hence the name of the post) is that I lost a Fuk-ton down low (that is the technical term) and only gained a smidge (another tech term) up high. My quarter ET was SAD to say the least. I was running with the Civics that have those dumbass neon glowing wiper fluid vents. I wanted to crawl into a hole after just spending "mad loot" on a Quaife and CenterForce Clutch. A few weeks ago, you would have been preaching to the choir (Amen!), but now, I know the facts by the numbers. If you dyno a before and after, then show a hell of an improvement, I will eat my hat...
Po-Jay
Ghetto Mods Galore!
Quaife-CenterForce Clutch-Butterflies Rmvd and Replaced again-Bassani Exhaust w/custom "Y"-Pipe-33% of Mystery Mod-Pro M 75MM MAF-BNoon Optimized SVT TB-B+M Short Throw-ES Front Engine Mount-Some Aesthetic Crap-
Blood,Sweat,Tears
Do I hear the Fat Lady singing?
98 E0 Silver Frost (Is there any other color?)
172HP 149TQ W/Bad A/F Mix
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Originally posted by Derk2000:
PO-JAY, did you "optimize" the butterflies? I think that would be a good idea for anyone not willing to lose low end power. I did no optimization of the butterflies, but BNoon did a nice job optimizing my TB... I won't steal his thunder... Let him tell the story.
Po-Jay
Ghetto Mods Galore!
Quaife-CenterForce Clutch-Butterflies Rmvd and Replaced again-Bassani Exhaust w/custom "Y"-Pipe-33% of Mystery Mod-Pro M 75MM MAF-BNoon Optimized SVT TB-B+M Short Throw-ES Front Engine Mount-Some Aesthetic Crap-
Blood,Sweat,Tears
Do I hear the Fat Lady singing?
98 E0 Silver Frost (Is there any other color?)
172HP 149TQ W/Bad A/F Mix
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Originally posted by Terry Haines:
No point in opening them sooner, if you do it = loss of intake velocity+ loss of good fuel mixing = loss of power.The velocity of the incoming air is missed,its reason is to improve fuel mix & cylinder fill at lower engine speeds........ I have dyno proof to support that. According to my graphs the IMRC should open around 3300-3400rpm for optimum effect of both curves. (atleast on my car; with my mods last fall)
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Originally posted by Po-Jay: Originally posted by Derk2000:
[b]PO-JAY, did you "optimize" the butterflies? I think that would be a good idea for anyone not willing to lose low end power. The secondaries optimization would in theory use the same principle as the TB optimization. Just flatten out the screws and smooth out stuff. (In case anyone was wondering). BTW, "smooth out stuff" is a tech term, too.  :p Demon, Terry, and anyone else - what if the secondaries opened up at the stock point, but opened up faster ? I.E. they open up at 3300, and I feel the power by 3500 (instead of feeling the power at 4000). Any way to do that?
2000 Silver SVT #1602 Check it out in the registry! Mi Coche
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Originally posted by Derk2000:
what if the secondaries opened up at the stock point, but opened up faster ? Any way to do that? It's in the PCM program. The stock opening is fairly fast. It's probably capped by the motor speed of the IMRC. Now could you boost the signal source and maybe speed it up? Probably wear the motor out fast/faster. Ford may actually have done some testing here... Perhaps substituting a little RC car motor.
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I still say the dyno chart here says they need to open sooner.
"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive." - President George W. Bush
95 Contour SE ATX V6
"Cracked" Secondaries
DMD Installed
SVT Brakes
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