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i wish i had some too! im real broke.
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Addicted CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Bradness:
Let me toss my (contrarian).02 in here. If you simply punch the precat material out, as someone here posted that there's not much gain, and I believe it. However, if you take a close look at the internal construction of the precats AND address the internal impediments to flow there are significant gains.
My precats were welded internally & externally, ported and then punched. Although I did not do any back to back (also added other parts at the time of install)there were significant gains and my total outlay was $50. As I recall, Terry Haines quoted gains of approx. 10HP.
The main problem is the stock Y pipe collector. This would be the first item I'd address. IMO, $600 for a set of headers is outrageous. MSDS HP claims on the website are obviously overstated. Everyone I know who has them, has complained about premature rusting. Now I know they offer an optional better coating, but it's an additional cost.
So there you have it, $50 vs. $600+, although you get a Y pipe too. Labour is the same either way.
You decide.
Gonna have to ask why you think $600.00 is so unfair? What are you comparing prices to? If you're comparing to the cost of a set of headers for something as common as a Mustang/F-Body, then you're comparing apples to oranges. So the V8 has more material involved with the headers you say? Take into consideration that the MSDS comes with a Y-Pipe, and the fact that they are being produced for a platform that is slowly creeping out of exhistence. Need more?
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 291
CEG\'er
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Read my post carefully where it states... "although you get a Y pipe too". How much is a Y pipe as a stand alone piece?
IMO, headers are headers are headers. Sure there's a difference between cast, clamshell or tubular, long or short tube, stainless or mild steel, etc. They all do 1 thing-get rid of exhaust gas in a superior fashion when compared to cast manifolds.
Do you rememeber SHM headers? A steal at only $1,200! Were they worth it?
Obviously, economies of scale and the quality of the product affect pricing. Personally, I cannot justify the cost of a set of MSDS headers (they're not even stainless) when I can get 75% of the gain for a small fraction of the cost. I can spend the $600 better elsewhere. When contemplating mods, I always look at the ratio of cost to benefit.
I'll finish by qualifying my post.... "This is my opinion, and like everyone, I'm entitled to it."
Redcoat Raceworks. Performance parts and custom fabricating for Contours, Mystiques and Cougars. Specializing in chassis and suspension parts. Custom end links, control arms, strut tower bars, engine torque braces, etc.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
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I posted earlier today about a stock manifold modification that I'm starting. It is essentially addressing the flow issues of the mystery modded stock manifolds & I will be doing back to back dynos to check the performance gain/loss. Should be an interesting little project given your feedback a few posts up... Kinda got me all fired up about it again! 
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Bradness:
My precats were welded internally & externally, ported and then punched. Although I did not do any back to back (also added other parts at the time of install)there were significant gains and my total outlay was $50. As I recall, Terry Haines quoted gains of approx. 10HP.
Are you able to reduce the size of and taper the (empty) precat chamber to make it more "collecter" size/shape?
I have one of the old (if not only) Roush protype (belong to Dan Beggs) front manifolds (the precat is replaced by a collecter and the L shape elbow is a smooth mandrel bend and an interested in making the rear manifold precat chamber match..
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 240
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Just wanted to update the thread. The headers/manifolds on the 6 are identical to that of the Contour, the y-pipe (and our flex pipe) are the only differences. With that said, Wagner Motorsports is selling their stainless steel headers for the 3.0L Mazda6 for $550, about $110 cheaper than the ceramic coated MSDS headers. Knowing how easy it is to modify the stock y-pipe on your cars, I thought you guys might appreciate this info, especially for those looking to get headers a little cheaper: http://wagnermotorsports.net/headers.htm
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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Joined: Sep 2002
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hmm, that store seems to be about half an hour from me =0
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 very interesting
2000 csvt #1553
Black/Tan
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00 CSVT
#390
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by Twisted6:
Just wanted to update the thread. The headers/manifolds on the 6 are identical to that of the Contour, the y-pipe (and our flex pipe) are the only differences.
With that said, Wagner Motorsports is selling their stainless steel headers for the 3.0L Mazda6 for $550, about $110 cheaper than the ceramic coated MSDS headers. Knowing how easy it is to modify the stock y-pipe on your cars, I thought you guys might appreciate this info, especially for those looking to get headers a little cheaper:
http://wagnermotorsports.net/headers.htm
Actually there website says $500!
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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