Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Duratec Performance Custom Grind Cams and Intake Manifolds...Can Make..Need Input

Terry, the regrind you're suggesting just affects lift, correct? How difficult is it to regrind to affect duration (i.e. shift the peak of the lobe), of do I have the wrong idea altogether. In terms of what Silva is looking into and investigating with his supplier, is regrinding a viable route forward starting with either the SVT or 3L cams or are there undesirable limitations to what can be accomplished starting with an existing cam shaft? Regrind vs. brand new should have a huge impact on Silva's business case in terms of tooling costs and how many customers he needs to recover his NRE costs.

Silva, have you considered sending heads to the company to have them do flowbenching and then make recommendations for cam specs? Perhaps develop cam spec for 2.5 SE heads, SVT heads, and 3L heads.

I guess the other thing I'd be interested in finding out is what mid-range torque gains can be achieved with hotter cams - my reading of the 3L dyno results is that people are improving on the base Taurus engine above 5k RPM but aren't really doing much below that (peak torques all similar to what you'd expect out of base Taurus engine). The exception if DavidZ who had the SVE cams and how made about 25 ft-lbs more torque across the RPM range. Will custom cams get us closer to the peak 215 TQ of the 2002 LS or the 221 of the Jag S-type?

Eric

I'll take your word for it, but 0.5mm is only 20 thou. Terry, what is the stock lift, I want to do a % increase comparison (for ****s and giggles) by adding 0.5mm?

.5mm is a 5.1% increase in lift (9.8mm max lift - all Duratec cams)

A 9.2% increase including rocker ratio.

That's huge on a multiple overhead cammed engine. In my opinion...

Including the tight clearance tolerances it may be the limit as well???

SILVA BULLITT,

All I am saying is that you are asking a group who's first words tend to be "I want one, how much!" instead of asking what the hp increase is and what will the specs of the cams be?

Sure you have a few who will buy but with cams costing AT LEAST $1000 I don't see the group here buying many sets. You had better come up with a price before you ask who would be interested because you would probably get alot more people interested in a price of $500 vs $1500. Most reputable companies should be able to provide you with a statement of work which would include a quote or piece price.

Hats off for the attempt but have you asked your dealer how many sets you need to sell to recoup your initial investment as I am assuming they are going to charge you for R&D. How are you going to decide what cam profile to use? What type of testing is going to be done to make sure that the valvetrain can take the added strain you are going to put on them by increasing lift?

I hope you succeed but I think you need to provide more info that "who is interested in cams?"

As far as my negative outlook goes I prefer to call it "setting realistic expectations". I'm sure Terry H could fill pages of posts with the number of people who say "I'll take one" but when it comes time to place an order the boards are silent. Look how people screamed and hollered for a supercharger and how many actually bought one once it was available.

The road course sounds like a cool idea.....any timing on it yet and when will NASCAR get their date (as it seems we unfortunately can't build a great track here on the mainland without having a NASCAR date first)

So far I love what I'm seeing as far as input!

As far as depth R&D goes it's gonna be dependent on a number of factors which will be finalized with my supplier. I'm hoping that I can get down and dirty tommorrow and get more in depth info on the cam process and even a custom intake and throttle body (note this would be a different supplier than the current one for the TB project)

I'm gonna suggest Terry's idea with them and see what they think. I will try and get a ballpark cost of cams for those that really need it, but seriously if I could possibly build a set of cams that could produce more than 12hp @wheels and equal torque hopefully, more on a modified SVT, I think even if the price was 5/600 dollars I think that's very well worth the money considering the aftermarket supplies now and the hp/tq we reap from those!!!

I may need a donor car if someone in the Cali area is willing....Aloha

93SVTCOBRA I think we're far pass the 'Interested in CAM stage!' That is not what this discussion is about. I'm looking for input from knowledgable ones on what they think or suggest I should I might want to also consider in doing this. Like I've mentioned, I have the resources, but that doesn't mean I or my supplier knows the Duratec inside and out.

Again, as mentioned in my previous response, If I can produce a set of cams that will provide substantial hp gains dyno proven, who won't want a set of these and even if I only sold to 5% of those on CEG alone, that's approximately 300 sales give or take! But it's not all sales, really I have all the products/resources already with most other markets which I rely on, it just so happens I drive an SVT Contour!

That's a thought we're considering, bringing big races to the islands. We were gonna have that CART series here a few years back but that went South when not enough tickets were sold. I can guarantee tickets would sell if NASCAR came to Town......Aloha

SILVA,
you need to r&d first..*Working with stock cams Vs 'new from billet' *Do the base circle/lift mod...test it*Cant change overlap unless 'all new'...the metal you have on the existing cam is all you have to work with*can change the 'up ramp' profile but the point at which its max lift will not change*work on the intakes first...more gains....TH

D'oh!
That's what I was missing. I forgot the cantilever of the rocker arm and it's unequal arms - hence the multiplyer. For some reason I was think og direct acting buckets, like on my old VW 1.8L motor, which on that type of cam/valve system, would mean that 0.5mm would be miniscule.

Terry it all makes sense now......

I agree this has to be tried as it is a fraction of the cost of making hole new cams, and if done right would be just as good. The key is making sure the shaft are heat treated correctly, and then "trued" up afterwards! Mind you I would think that the depth of heat treatment on a cam could support a 0.5mm clean up, provided that the shell thickness of the heat treated material isn't comparitively thin compared to the amount of material that is to be removed.

Anyone have any ideas on what a labour cost would be to install these - not cheap I bet.

from what I understand heat treating is not a surface treatment. heat treating will affect the entire shaft.

A surface treatment would be something like nitriding or carburizing which hardens the surface of the metal to produce a hard wear resistant surface while the base metal remains unaffected so it retains its original strength and durability.