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You're getting rather personal, in this and the last lengthy post of yours. I am starting to take offense at the subtle, and not so subtle hints that you seem to feel that my wife is somehow "less of a person" than anyone else, simply because you don't agree with what she partakes in.
I wasn't referring to MY pictures, or HER form in any specific manner.. the ENTIRE post was about ART.. and the subjectivity of the practice itself, and broadening your horizons would be accomplished by strengthing your weaknesses (knowledge of art, or history of the same).
Everyone should strive to strengthen themselves on whatever front it is that they lack in. Car knowledge, history, politics, or (for some) etiquette, are things people research and learn every day. Just because I happen to appreciate this form, and you do not, does not imply that you "must" do anything of the sort with regards to my wife's pictures. It also, no matter what you seem to think, does not give you ANY RIGHT to say ANY of the things that you have said, both in outright words, and through actions, and subtleties.
I would be out of my mind if I didn't let you know that there are certain lines people should not cross, and this is quickly approaching one. Take your appreciation, or lack thereof, of this particular subject, and tell someone else, because everytime you try to voice an "opinion" or a stance, you end up dragging me (or my family), personally, in to it.
I'm done being insulted, both directly, and indirectly.
Ray
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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Originally posted by infuryum:
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
Ray,
You seem to think I'm getting personal. I don't think any less of your wife or you, and I'm sorry you got that impression. For your information, I've told people I don't appreciate the girls who dress slutty, much less those girls who think it necessary to take pictures in the buff. My responses just happen to be about you and your wife (hence the reason you take it personal) because that is what the "art" consists of that you are considering posting on this board.
If you don't want this to go personal, then don't post the pics. Otherwise, you'll have to take some flack from me at least, because I've been called the moral ruler for the SC CEG.
So, let me take this to a not so personal level.
I work in a building surrounded by statues of naked people hammered out of iron. Some are bathing, some are frolicking with children, some are standing, others are simply busts of the human form. I don't like it. I don't think it's art. Sure, it's cool that they were able to take their medium and create something out of a pile of iron, but still, why the naked human body? To me, it describes a time when artists were trying to get under the skin of the establishment.
As for knowing about art, etiquette, etc (as you implied I know nothing about), I know plenty about both. I'm sorry you took this so personally. You talk about me coming to the line and crossing it. I think you did the same.
And to take it back to a personal level, this whole issue came up because you said you wanted to post pictures of your wife, that from all implications in the posts leading up to it, were to be implied as naked pics, I don't think it's right to share pictures like that of your wife with others. I have stated my opinion, you know where I stand. If you are going to post, I will respond.
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Iâ??m going to chime in on this one.
I believe the human body can be a beautiful inspiration for art. However, I believe when the human body is used to express art it is a fine line that can cross over to pornography easily. Iâ??m not even suggesting that the photos of Jenna or yourself are that. It really is how one sees it. My personal opinion on what I find sexy are the less graphic photos that leave something to the imagination. It leaves a sense of mystery to the beholder. It stays with you when your imagination is involved. If itâ??s all laid out for you to see, then youâ??ve seen it and thatâ??s it. Think pin up girls of the 1940-50â??s. To this day they are very sexy. The two previous photos you posted, kind of fit into that.
I agree with Aaron about posting â??artsyâ? photos of your wife. I have met Jenna and she is a lovely girl. Iâ??m sure your photos are amazing, but I think they should be kept for you, her husband and if shown, it be done for arts sake. A car forum with a bunch of young horny guys and girls is not the place to honor your art or your wife, regardless of if she approves. People will look at and treat her differently.
I am a photographer, I have a darkroom, and I have been doing this since I was twelve. If I was over at your house Iâ??d probably be interested in seeing them, more for the composition you used, not the nudity or art of it.
I am no means a prude and I would be the worldâ??s biggest hypocrite if I said I was. If you choose to show your art, show it in the proper forum, not a car forum.
Photographic art the way I interpret it is the photo of a model, the identity of the model is irrelevant. This is the way art should be seen. Most people here wonâ??t see it as art because they know or know of Jenna.
With the build up this subject has received, it will no matter how you try for it not to, this will be a post of Rayâ??s naked hot wife instead of the beauty of the human body.
Suck it Trebek! And by Trebek I mean Seaegee!
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Originally posted by Gimpy Mushu:
A car forum with a bunch of young horny guys and girls
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I feel the exact same way, about the build up. It would be hard to look at the pictures in any other way but that. I didn't, and don't, have any intention of posting pornographic pictures of her online. I never said I would, or at least never meant it that way. I only mentioned that I would have to find the more "appropriate" pictures, not that I would have to weed out the irrelevant ones, and post the bad ones. This whole talk about "private moments", etc. is just that.. talk. I didn't ever bring up anything about posting THOSE pictures. I never said "nekkid" or anything remotely suggestive. Those are mine!!!!    SC CEG: The (ir)relevance of these pictures on this board, and the build up it has received has certainly swayed me from subjecting my wife to the kind of comments that Aaron has made it known he would say. (Moral ruler, and all). To those of you who HAVE seen my work (regardless of whether or not you liked it), and stood up for the style I utilize: thank you. Mushu: I certainly think that this topic has had enough mention, and I, for one, am glad to find another who can "envision that which they cannot see." I would be ecstatic to talk photo-tech with you any time!! Aaron: I still fail to see how you know plenty about etiquette; I've yet to say that, because you don't like artwork of the human form, you are somehow less of a person than anyone else.. The opposite of that has certainly been made clear on how you feel. I am a dirty mouthed, dirty minded person because I interpret the human form as anything other than disgusting, or demoralizing. Duly noted. Stating things like, "filling your mind with smut", "Garbage in, Garbage out", "they are nothing but a private moment shared between he and his wife that he is now demoralizing others with.", and my personal favorite, "I don't understand why anybody would even PRETEND to post slutty pictures of his/her spouse." I fail to see where you were NOT personal about this. You, as someone who admittedly states you don't see the hoopla in this artistic method, pass judgement; not only on ME/my wife(for doing this in the first place), but also on work that I have invested a good deal of time, effort, money, and heart in to. It is art. That is the smallest sentence I can state.. It.. is... art. Whether you like it, think its repulsive, or just don't get it, it is still art. As an end: I have nothing PERSONAL against you, and would gladly continue to exchange any posts, or information (meets, tips, tech, politics, etc) with you. I, unlike many other people who joined recently(we won't name names, but we all know who they are... the "ceg misfits") know how to let things go, and try not to let anything fester, or remain. You've got your views, and I've got mine. Water under the bridge as I see it. Now you know where I stand, as well. (Did you think I wouldn't post?? jeez..  LOL) Ray
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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Originally posted by Ray:
Aaron:
I still fail to see how you know plenty about etiquette; I've yet to say that, because you don't like artwork of the human form, you are somehow less of a person than anyone else.. The opposite of that has certainly been made clear on how you feel. I am a dirty mouthed, dirty minded person because I interpret the human form as anything other than disgusting, or demoralizing. Duly noted. Stating things like, "filling your mind with smut", "Garbage in, Garbage out", "they are nothing but a private moment shared between he and his wife that he is now demoralizing others with.", and my personal favorite, "I don't understand why anybody would even PRETEND to post slutty pictures of his/her spouse." I fail to see where you were NOT personal about this.
Don't take my statements out of context. If the pictures aren't okay to post directly on CEG or from a photo hosting site such as www.fototime.com, then they are a little racier than I would prefer to see. Hence my comments. Again, the personal aspect of this comes because these are your pictures we were talking about.
On top of that, I didn't say that you are a dirty mouthed dirty minded person because of the way you interpret the human form...I in fact stated that the more you take in that is immoral in form can taint your mind as to how you look at the body. When posting pictures like you are alluding to, you most likely, are turning this into a "look at Ray's hot wife" post instead of "look at the artistic aspect of this shot of my wife" post.
Quote:
You, as someone who admittedly states you don't see the hoopla in this artistic method, pass judgement; not only on ME/my wife(for doing this in the first place), but also on work that I have invested a good deal of time, effort, money, and heart in to. It is art. That is the smallest sentence I can state.. It.. is... art. Whether you like it, think its repulsive, or just don't get it, it is still art.
Ray
If you don't like criticism, then keep your pictures off the board. I didn't judge you or your wife. Again, I already told you I haven't seen the pictures and don't hope to. And in all honesty, you can spend as much time, effort, and money on your artwork. It's your business. You brought it into this open forum though, making it everybody's business. I never slammed you or your wife for artistic expression, but rather let you know that I can't stand people who would parade around naked for the enjoyment of others. It doesn't make sense and is not art in my opinion.
And like you said, I can let things go under the bridge, but I will not change my response to issues like this.
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Good, glad we are done with it.
The End
On a side note; I just wanted to let Ray know that I have known Aaron for many years and he is an awesome guy. He does not judge people. I seriously doubt Aaron ever dreamed his kids would call a hard drinking, foul mouthed, democrat, Irish girl Aunt Kelly, but they do, and he is cool with it. If you or Jenna were ever in Dallas and needed help, he would be the first guy there.
Ray, you and Jenna are great and if I ever need help and Iâ??m in your area, Iâ??ll call.
To reward you guys for a good hearty debateâ?¦ a new movie will follow shortly.
Last edited by Gimpy Mushu; 05/02/05 02:57 AM.
Suck it Trebek! And by Trebek I mean Seaegee!
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I have no life
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This thread needs more leaf spring.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
This thread needs more leaf spring.
That's what I'm talking about...
WHERE'S THE MOVIE!!!!????
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